"The Broken Buddha" by Ven.Dhammika and other scandals

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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BlackBird
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Post by BlackBird »

Thank you Robert, I very much enjoyed reading your response.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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Mr Man
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Post by Mr Man »

robertk wrote: When I was staying at the Godwin Samaratne (sp?) meditation center near Kandy
:offtopic:
Hi robertk
Not sure what (sp?) means but the centre is called nilambe.
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robertk
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Post by robertk »

it means i wasn't sure of the spelling. i looked it up and found it is spelt Godwin Samararathne who has actually passed away since I was there. yes thanks the name was Nilambe, a very nice place high on a small mountain surronded by a tea plantation. Idyllic even.
i was there for 3 weeks in 1989
What did you think of it?

edit. i should add in case it wasn't clear that the people who Godwin counseled weren't from Nilambe retreats as far as i know. he took a relaxed style and only had a couple of set sitting periods a day, and those were optional..
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Mr Man
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Post by Mr Man »

robertk wrote:it means i wasn't sure of the spelling. i looked it up and found it is Spelt Godwin Samararathne who has actually passed away since I was there. yes thanks the name was Nilambe, a very nice place high on a small mountain surronded by a tea plantation. Idyllic even.
i was there for 3 weeks in 1989
What did you think of it?
I was there in 1982 and did a retreat with Ven. S. Dhammika and stayed on for a few days. Godwin was also there at that time and was mentoring. It was a profound and intense experience.
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robertk
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Post by robertk »

nice to know that!
ven Dhammika has been around for a long time, although i never met him.

remembering all this makes me want to go back. i was in sri lanka last year with my wife and she wanted me to take her there but I wanted to spend the time in the ancient temples..

sorry for all the off topic posts everyone.
binocular
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Post by binocular »

BlackBird wrote:
binocular wrote:
BlackBird wrote:People often travel great distances for the express purpose of staying at a particular monastery, to study under a particular teacher or method. So you would think wrong my friend
If people think that a Buddhist monastery is much like a tourist destination, and that if they're not happy with it they can demand some kind of refund or compensation for their dissatisfaction, that's their thing ...
You've arrived at a strange conclusion given what I said. Nobody said anything about tourist destinations. I've never heard of anyone demanding refunds or asking for compensation. But I've met plenty of people who have travelled great distances to practice meditation under a particular teacher of whom they have heard good things about. I did so myself, and if I had not come across the teachings of Ven Nyanavira I probably would still be there today.
I think that it is irresponsible to go merely by hearsay in one's choice of what monastery to stay at or what teacher to study with. Sure, some people go merely by hearsay. And often, it works out well. Other times, not so much.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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BlackBird
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Post by BlackBird »

binocular wrote: I think that it is irresponsible to go merely by hearsay in one's choice of what monastery to stay at or what teacher to study with. Sure, some people go merely by hearsay. And often, it works out well. Other times, not so much.
Really? Comon man...

Monasteries develop positive reputations, people write about their experiences, come home to their friends and share said experiences. People you have some measure of trust in give an account, and you've got no reason not to trust it.

Have you ever stayed in a monastery before, at all? Have you ever travelled at all for the purposes of Dhamma?

If not, I don't think you're qualified to get on your high horse and start criticising the decision making process of other people. Heck, I don't think you're qualified to do that in any case. Think and believe what you wish, there's nothing irresponsible about travelling to a place to stay without first having visited it.
Last edited by BlackBird on Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks
binocular
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Post by binocular »

Why did you start this thread?
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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BlackBird
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Post by BlackBird »

binocular wrote:Why did you start this thread?
How about you answer the questions I posed to you first, namely:

1. Have you spent time in a monastery?
2. Have you ever travelled for the purposes of Dhamma?

Maybe then I'll chuck you the bait for your follow on.

It won't take a genius to spot that you've offended me with your criticisms of my decision making process, labelling it "irresponsible." But I figure you've never been in my shoes, or anyone remotely like me's shoes. In which case, I don't really need to be offended, and from here on in, I'll just let it go.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks
binocular
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Post by binocular »

BlackBird wrote:It won't take a genius to spot that you've offended me with your criticisms of my decision making process, labelling it "irresponsible."
"So, as I said, Kalamas: 'Don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, "This contemplative is our teacher." When you know for yourselves that, "These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering" — then you should abandon them.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.

"Now, Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness' — then you should enter & remain in them.



This is a Buddhist discussion forum, and I posted my opinion on going only by hearsay in one's committments. If you choose to feel judged by this opinion - that is your choice.


But I figure you've never been in my shoes, or anyone remotely like me's shoes.
I've been around enough and long enough to become more careful about my standards for making committments. And I've learned this the hard way, fortunately or unfortunately.

To each his own.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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BlackBird
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Post by BlackBird »

You still haven't answered the questions. That's twice now you've neglected the opportunity to front up, and chosen instead to ignore my request for an answer.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks
binocular
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Post by binocular »

BlackBird wrote:You still haven't answered the questions.
Because they are irrelevant, only distract from the point.
Besides, I did address them when I said I've been around enough and long enough etc.

I had thought that with this OP, you'd be willing to explore the criteria by which to make committments, such as the committment to stay at a particular monastery or with a particular teacher, and how problems ensue if one isn't careful enough.
Which is why my first post in this thread was about abused students who, in most cases, saw it coming, but didn't do anything about it.

:shrug:
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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BlackBird
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Post by BlackBird »

binocular wrote:
BlackBird wrote:You still haven't answered the questions.
Because they are irrelevant, only distract from the point.
binocular wrote: Besides, I did address them when I said I've been around enough and long enough etc.
This is interesting, because these two statements contradict one another, which one is your choice?
If you chose 1. Because they are irrelevant my answer is: No. Not at all, it's infinitely relevant because it shows you are nothing more than an arm chair critic passing judgement upon people who's experiences you have never come close to sharing.

If you chose 2. Then: No that was merely a sidestep and a poor attempt to reframe the issue around your original criticism. It is an unqualified statement that gives no evidence that you've done anything remotely like what would be in most people's eyes a justification for making such criticisms.

We're finished here, I've repeatedly asked you whether you've ever stayed in a monastery before and I have asked you whether you've ever travelled for the Dhamma and you have repeatedly avoided the question, a question you would have no problem answering if the answer was affirmative. But it's clearly not.

Given that: Your opinion is quite unqualified, and I can quite happily disregard just about everything you've said :)

Have a good day
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks
Nirosh
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Post by Nirosh »

gavesako wrote:There is a history to this book. I don't know the details but I heard from some monks in Sri Lanka that the author later asked for forgiveness and obviously regretted expressing such negatively biased views in the book. One could probably find fault with any established tradition along similar lines.
Correction to Bhante Gavesako: There were two emails in 2011. First email was sent in January 2011 (read "Nude Monk's" 111th page). Second email that is "Nude monk's" was sent in May 2011. First email was sent by [email protected], and the abbot Ven. Ariyananda of Na-Uyana Monastery managed to hack into this email account. Evidently author (an Indian monk) was exposed and forced to ask for forgiveness, but as I heard from Sri Lankan monks, the author wasn't regretted for writing, but for using an easy answer for the secret question of the email. The author of the second email is still unknown, but a lot of monks were suspected. As I heard another "fault finding" book can be written about the way Ven. Ariyananda harassed the monks after the second email.
gavesako wrote:such negatively biased views in the book.
Seems like you are also negatively biased against the authors without knowing they are true or not
gavesako wrote:One could probably find fault with any established tradition along similar lines.
Faults are there, that's why people find them. Correct the faults.
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Rob1980
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Post by Rob1980 »

Hey Nirosh

Thanks for the information. You seem to know far more than most people on this thread about the book.

Do you know whether things have changed at Na Uyana so that is good place to ordain now?

Do you know if any of the book contains any truth, if so, which parts?

Thanks

With metta

Rob
Reviews of Meditation and Yoga retreats as well as Monasteries: https://www.reviewmyretreat.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"
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