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The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali - Page 9 - Dhamma Wheel

The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Kare
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Re: The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali

Postby Kare » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:17 pm

Last edited by Kare on Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mettāya,
Kåre

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Kare
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Re: The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali

Postby Kare » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:34 pm

Mettāya,
Kåre

danieLion
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Re: The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali

Postby danieLion » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:18 am

Kare,
You're welcome. I'll start with Warder.
Kindly
dL

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Re: The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali

Postby danieLion » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:32 am

Kare, Sylvester,
I was an English Lit. major (and close to a BA) before I switched to psychology. I was an "A" student except for the one four-hundred level required grammar course. I got a "C" and that's only because I wrote a great research paper (about tag questions). But the sentence diagramming and sentence type identification was very difficult for me to grasp. Basic grammar was even hard at firs, but I eventually overcame that (and two years of college Spanish probably helped). I'm nervous I'll face similar issues with Pali grammar. Do you have any advice for dealing with such obstacles?
Kindly,
dL
PS. I started with Bodhi's online course and he said if you're new to Pali De Sylva's Primer should be used but ATI says it starts falling short around ch. 11? Would it be a good idea to do the exercises in De Sylva up to that point and read Warder simultaneous or just stick with Warder? Also, what do you think of Bodhi's online course?

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Re: The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali

Postby Sylvester » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:03 am

Daniel

I'll second Kare's recommendation of Warder. It's true that if you use da Silva's Primer, you will reach the point of diminishing returns quite rapidly. It's useful for a broad survey of the cases and conjugations, which is something that Warder's 1st 16 lessons were also designed to achieve. What's superior in Warder is his in-depth treatment of syntax that is unmatched. Pali syntax and grammatical constructions are sometimes obscured by enclitics or even words in a construction being distributed far apart in a clause/sentence. You won't find such structural analyses in other Pali textbooks.

Just bear in mind that Warder envisaged his Intro to be used as part of a 3 semester course in a formal setting. Since I've stopped my Pali classes, I guess I will have to distribute Warder over many more years of self-study before it becomes 2nd nature. I guess some formal background in Linguistics will give you an advantage, so that you won't have to check up on things like nominal, pronominal, adverbial etc etc. The ability to translate sentences only come after Lesson 27, when most of the hard work has been done on syntax.

So, while you grit your teeth in frustration before Lesson 27, you will still be able to easily understand how words are related to one another within a small turf of text. In fact, with the 1st 16 lessons, you will have learnt enough about compounds to audit how translators parse these annoying creatures and decide if a translation is legitimate.

Welcome to the Dark Side :jedi:

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Re: The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali

Postby Sylvester » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:13 am


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Mr Man
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Re: The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali

Postby Mr Man » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:03 am

Hi danieLion
So you have had a complete turnaround since the start of this thread and, for you, no longer think it is a "waste of effort"?

binocular
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Re: The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali

Postby binocular » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:57 pm


Coyote
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Re: The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali

Postby Coyote » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:58 pm

If I may ask a quick question without derailing this thread: How do monks learn Pali? It seems like many of the courses and methods mentioned on this thread are heavy grammar related methods, much like a school or university style language course. Do monks do a similar thing or is it more of an immersion style way of learning?
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
Iti 26

danieLion
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Re: The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali

Postby danieLion » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:17 pm


danieLion
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Re: The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali

Postby danieLion » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:21 pm

Last edited by danieLion on Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

danieLion
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Re: The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali

Postby danieLion » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:22 pm


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Mr Man
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Re: The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali

Postby Mr Man » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:45 am

danieLion, hope that your efforts are well rewarded.
Best wishes

binocular
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Re: The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali

Postby binocular » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:48 am


danieLion
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Re: The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali

Postby danieLion » Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:58 pm

Thanks Mr Man.

danieLion
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Re: The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali

Postby danieLion » Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:01 pm


Sylvester
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Re: The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali

Postby Sylvester » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:03 am


chownah
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Re: The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali

Postby chownah » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:11 am


Sylvester
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Re: The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali

Postby Sylvester » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:27 am

If you deem it frivolous, so be it. I don't pander to those who are dismissive of what the experts know better. My job is not to improve on what Warder or Otto Jespersen has done. I suggest that you invest in some time Googling "nexus+linguistics", rather than demand that the rest of the world settle down to your comprehension level as the common denominator.

chownah
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Re: The Benefits & Drawbacks of Pali

Postby chownah » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:48 am

I just want to know if there is some practical difference in the three ways to refer to the ball.....to most people there is not.
chownah


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