Edward Snowden, an American hero

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Mr Man
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by Mr Man »

tiltbillings wrote:
Mr Man wrote: I don't think people actually know what is being done and this is one of the problems. I would speculate that large databases are being built profiling the citizenship and as tax payer I'm not convinced that this is the best use of my money or the best method for dealing with terrorism, crime etc. I would also imagine that information is used to help certain groupings vested interests and agendas.
In other words, you have not really been reading what has been written about what is going on. There a fair amount of good info out there.
I wouldn't say that. I follow the UK news (to some extent). It seems like the UK intelligence services have been storing general internet traffic and are saying that correct procedure is being followed to search within that stored data. The impression of many here is that our Foreign Secretary William Hague is not being truthful or is not properly in control (or aware) of how this stored information is being accessed/used/shared.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by tiltbillings »

Mr Man wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Mr Man wrote: I don't think people actually know what is being done and this is one of the problems. I would speculate that large databases are being built profiling the citizenship and as tax payer I'm not convinced that this is the best use of my money or the best method for dealing with terrorism, crime etc. I would also imagine that information is used to help certain groupings vested interests and agendas.
In other words, you have not really been reading what has been written about what is going on. There a fair amount of good info out there.
I wouldn't say that. I follow the UK news (to some extent). It seems like the UK intelligence services have been storing general internet traffic and are saying that correct procedure is being followed to search within that stored data. The impression of many here is that our Foreign Secretary William Hague is not being truthful or is not properly in control (or aware) of how this stored information is being accessed/used/shared.
The impression. Fear mongering?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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lyndon taylor
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by lyndon taylor »

Vs burying your head in the sand!!!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
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tiltbillings
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by tiltbillings »

lyndon taylor wrote:Vs burying your head in the sand!!!!
Not that you have shown. Again, what is being done?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Mr Man
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by Mr Man »

tiltbillings wrote:The impression. Fear mongering?
Why do you think it is fear mongering?
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tiltbillings
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by tiltbillings »

Mr Man wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:The impression. Fear mongering?
Why do you think it is fear mongering?
You don't think it is?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Mr Man
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by Mr Man »

tiltbillings wrote:
Mr Man wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:The impression. Fear mongering?
Why do you think it is fear mongering?
You don't think it is?
Hi Tilt
I'm not 100% sure what the "it" is that you are referring to? My post?

I think it is right to have concerns about how our private information is accessed and used. And also for what reasons. I think it is also right and responsible to question the actions of institutions that represent us or that which we are a part of. In the UK many intuitions have shown that they are incapable of storing data in a responsible way. They have also shown us that they will use data/surveillance in inappropriate/illegal ways. We have been misled by our Govt. and our Govt. has shown that it is not averse to acting for the benefit of it's members/vested interests. Those at the helm have shown that they are not always aware, or capable of understanding the actions, of those in the crew.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by tiltbillings »

Mr Man wrote: . . .
Again, what is being done by the US government that warrants all this concern?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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lyndon taylor
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by lyndon taylor »

Whatya, you work for the NSA or something, this is major major mess up, thank goodness Snowden had the nerve to make us aware of what is going on, this has so little to do with terrorism and everything to do with controlling the masses and feeding information to the corporations.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
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Mr Man
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by Mr Man »

Well I think the discussion is branching out and a particular instance is just a symptom of a larger phenomena but in the case of prism US agencies have obtained direct access to Google, facebook etc. Now to buy into your "fear mongering" accusation what if a McCarthyesque Govt. was to come into power or what if you already actually had one.
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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by Modus.Ponens »

lyndon taylor wrote:Whatya, you work for the NSA or something, this is major major mess up, thank goodness Snowden had the nerve to make us aware of what is going on, this has so little to do with terrorism and everything to do with controlling the masses and feeding information to the corporations.
Evidently. I'm sorry to say this to my american friends, but the US is the first fascist democracy in the world. And most of europe is following their footsteps.
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
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Dan74
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by Dan74 »

Modus.Ponens wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:Whatya, you work for the NSA or something, this is major major mess up, thank goodness Snowden had the nerve to make us aware of what is going on, this has so little to do with terrorism and everything to do with controlling the masses and feeding information to the corporations.
Evidently. I'm sorry to say this to my american friends, but the US is the first fascist democracy in the world. And most of europe is following their footsteps.
I wonder what sort of information is being fed to the corporations? Don't they already get what they want and much more directly from the cookies?

I mean internet traffic is a massive amount of information. They would trail it automatically for clues, they can't read it individually. I think there is a fair amount of paranoia in the air.

For me, what was new (and I don't know how factual it was) was that the US does a lot of spying this way, whereas the whole time the finger in the West was squarely pointing at China...
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chownah
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by chownah »

tiltbillings wrote:
Mr Man wrote: . . .
Again, what is being done by the US government that warrants all this concern?
Compared to governments world wide the US gov't is fairly benign.....but everything is impermanent....the infrastructure and legal accommodation for spying like this will likely outlive the benign quality of the existing gov't and will be inherited by a governing group of people more than willing to destroy anything and anyone that opposes them......think about Syria....the powers there seem very willing to kill as many people as necessary to stay in power...I've heard that it is over 100,000 people killed already and there is no sign that they would hesitate to kill another million if necessary....I think that people should be concerned about the day when people like that come to power and inherit the infrastructure and legal framework that is being created now....after a short time the legal framework will not even be an issue as they can have their way with the law by destroying the opposition.

I don't waste too much time worrying about this.....people get the government they deserve.
chownah
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IanAnd
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by IanAnd »

Ben wrote: If the political situation in the united states is so bad then may I suggest you do something about it.
As a matter of fact, Ben, I have done something about it. I've taken myself out of its jurisdiction. I am not a "citizen of the U.S." as that phrase is contemplated under the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The "U.S." in that context is an incorporated entity (the U.S. government was incorporated in 1871 in part in order to remove it from constitutional limitations), and therefore a fiction at law. It can only deal with other entities that also identify themselves as legal fictions. I am an "American national" and a Citizen of the united States of America as it was organically contemplated by the 1776 Declaration of Independence, the 1781 Articles of Confederation, and the 1787 Constitution for the united States of America as amended and ratified on December 15th, 1791, and have declared that so within a recorded affidavit. There is not an official within any of the branches of government that will dare to rebut that affidavit because they would have to perjure themselves to do so! And they know it!

I've been studying the law for the past thirty plus years, but most assiduously during the past five years. I have studied the common law and statutory law and the differences between the two. I doubt there are more than a few on this forum who can say the same with regard to their own nationalities and the law within those jurisdictions.
Ben wrote: After all, it is a representative and responsible democracy not a totalitarian state.
As it is currently being propagandized to the rest of this nation, you are correct. Yet a growing number of people are beginning to see through the propaganda. In actuality, it has been a totalitarian state since the 1860s, due mostly to people's ignorance. Anyone who hasn't read the history of the Reconstruction years after the War Between the States is sadly lacking in first-hand facts to rely upon that back up my statement. Gradually over the years, beginning in 1913 with the passage of the Federal Reserve Act, and then twenty years later under the FDR administration, American society has been gradually socialized into the monstrosity of Big Government/Big Brother socialism that it is today.

It (the current iteration of the federal government of the U.S.) does not represent me within its fictional realm. Do you understand the legal implications behind the word "represent." It means to re- present, as in "to present once again." Those who go before a modern administrative court and are represented by an attorney have agreed to be viewed as "non compos mentis" in the eyes of the court, and therefore wards of the court. They have declared themselves incompetent at law — an awful mistake if one wishes to get the truth on the record and hold public official accountable! These administrative courts are not judicial courts, and are therefore inferior courts in the eyes of the law. They adjudicate matters between fictional entities ONLY. If one agrees to be identified as a legal fiction in America today, one pays the price by waiver of inherent inalienable rights. Most people, when the go to court, don't realize that they are likely involved in contract law. They think they are in the judicial court, when in reality they are in either an equity court or admiralty.

However, do not rely upon your attorney to tell you these facts. It is a conflict of interest for him or her. Find out for yourself through diligent first-hand study and research!

I don't expect naysayers to agree with me. They're too busy to be bothered by actually look into the facts, and are more than willing to buy into the propaganda. After all, it's that propaganda that supports their lifestyle.
"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV
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