Advaitin vs. Buddhist takes on awareness/reality

[tiltbillings]

. . .

You made the claim about the tathagatagarbha sutras, you need to support it.

[tiltbillings]

birch-bark scrolls . . .Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra and the Bhadrakalpikā sutra.
. . .

And these sutras are dated to?

[Judai]

. . .

You made the claim about the tathagatagarbha sutras, you need to support it.

I did support the claim did you not even read what I posted???you might not know the name of all the Buddha nature sutras(Tathagatagarbha) what i highlighted in BLUE is the main Tathagatagarbha sutra so I have supported my claim.

as far as our seperate discussion about "dating" what I am saying is not a bold claim,its common knowledge that the oldest carbon dated Buddhist texts is a mixture of BOTH the Pali canon and Mahayana texts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C4%81ndh ... B_language

Until 1994, the only Gāndhāri manuscript available to the scholars was a birch bark scroll of a Buddhist text, the Dhammapada, discovered at Kohmāri Mazār near Hotan in Xinjiang in 1893 CE. From 1994 on, a large number of fragmentary manuscripts of Buddhist texts, seventy-seven altogether,[1] were discovered in eastern Afghanistan and Western Pakistan. These include:[2]
29 fragments of birch-bark scrolls of British Library collection consisting of parts of the Dhammapada, Anavatapta gāthā, the Rhinoceros Sutra, Sangitiparyaya and a collection of sutras from the Anguttara Nikaya.
129 fragments of palm leaf folios of Schøyen collection, 27 fragments of palm-leaf folios of Hirayama collection and 18 fragments of palm leaf folios of Hayashidera collection consisting of the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra and the Bhadrakalpikā sutra.
24 birch-bark scrolls of Senior collection consists of mostly different sutras and the Anavatapta gāthā.
8 fragments of a single birch-bark scroll and 2 small fragments of another scroll of University of Washington collection consisting of probably an Abhidharma text or other scholastic commentaries.

[Judai]

as I said BOTH the Pali canon and Mahayana sutras are found in the Gandhara scrolls

[tiltbillings]

as I said BOTH the Pali canon and Mahayana sutras are found in the Gandhara scrolls

But you did not answer the question as to the actual date of the tathagatagarbha sutras, and it is not the "Pali Canon" found in the Gandhara scrolls.

[Gaoxing]

Having read the Suttas the Buddha does not say No-self is suffering. The Buddha said self is suffering and this self and any idea of self or independent entities are only a construct of the Skandha. There can neither be self in any of the aggregates. What makes the self appear is clinging to it and also any other concept of independent entity. Dependent origination negates the possibility of any entity that is a self.

The Buddha equates existence with suffering and self. Once existence is eliminated the threshold of Nirvana is gained. Who sees dependent origination sees the Damma and who sees the Damma sees the Buddha. Beyond the damma there is no Buddha and no self and no suffering.

The twelve components of dependent origination are the three categories of afflictions, actions and suffering. Past, present and future. These again are nothing but ignorance, craving and clinging causing the delusion of existence causing suffering. The twelve components are 1) ignorance 2) volition 3) consciousness 4) name and form 5) Six senses 6) contact 7) feeling 8) craving 9) clinging 10) becoming 11) birth 12) death

[Sadat]

Actually no matter whether it is Buddhism or Advaita Vedanta, both systems talk about the same. In Buddhism we talk about consciousness, but we also talk about awareness. Pure awareness in Buddhism is called Buddha nature. It is said that every living being has Buddha nature. This nature is Pure Awareness, and nothing else is beyond it. It has never been born, will never die and no one can ever hurt or harm it. It is everlasting, it is empty of all conceptual existence and witnessing everything that goes by without becoming an object or subject to the world of phenomena or change.

Consciousness contrary is not awareness, it is only an outwardly just a manifestation of awareness. This manifestation has its cause in ignorance and false view. It exists wherever duality exists. Actually it is the creator of dualistic world, the world of concept, of black and white, of you and me...etc. It is the filter of separation.

So in Buddhism the concept of consciousness is somewhat defined differently than what normal people used to understand what consciousness is.

Actually if we read closely at the sutra with some meditative insight, we'll discover that Buddha had never reject the understanding of Brahman as pure consciousness or Atman as the individual mindfulness. The only rejection Buddha wanted to point out was the conceptual understanding and grasping at the experience Truth. Most people miss that point when they read the Words of Buddha. Buddha's only purpose and goal was to cut through all conceptual understanding and labeling at things. This was the point of the Buddha's Essential Teaching.

This post was answer by
Huan Minh Vuong
www.meditationscenter.dk

This is a very good summary of the issue. The suttas that talk about infinite invisible consciousness support it.

[pegembara]

Actually no matter whether it is Buddhism or Advaita Vedanta, both systems talk about the same. In Buddhism we talk about consciousness, but we also talk about awareness. Pure awareness in Buddhism is called Buddha nature. It is said that every living being has Buddha nature. This nature is Pure Awareness, and nothing else is beyond it. It has never been born, will never die and no one can ever hurt or harm it. It is everlasting, it is empty of all conceptual existence and witnessing everything that goes by without becoming an object or subject to the world of phenomena or change.

Then what is it that is aware of this "Pure Awareness" and so eloquently explain this "Buddha nature"?
A purer form of awareness that witnessed the witness?
Or just an activity of knowing or witnessing?

“This is not me; this is not mine, I am not this.” This phrase is an important tool in learning to recognize the truth of anatta, or not-self.

“And what is agreed upon by the wise as existing in the world that I too say, ‘It exists’?

“Form that’s inconstant, stressful, subject to change is agreed upon by the wise as existing in the world, and I too say, ‘It exists.’

“Feeling that’s inconstant, stressful, subject to change is agreed upon by the wise as existing in the world, and I too say, ‘It exists.’

“Perception that’s inconstant, stressful, subject to change is agreed upon by the wise as existing in the world, and I too say, ‘It exists.’

“Fabrications that are inconstant, stressful, subject to change are agreed upon by the wise as existing in the world, and I too say, ‘They exist.’

“Consciousness(sights, sounds, smells, tastes, touch, and mental objects) that’s inconstant, stressful, subject to change is agreed upon by the wise as existing in the world, and I too say, ‘It exists.’

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN22_94.html