Edward Snowden, an American hero

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imagemarie
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by imagemarie »

I'm about as liberal as you can get as far as American politics are concerned
Still, I think our Mahayana friends have the edge. Funny that.

http://genkaku-again.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... leaks.html

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alan
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by alan »

It's data-mining, not spying. Signals Intelligence have always been used in war--this is just an updated version.
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Mr Man
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by Mr Man »

Ben wrote:In my opinion, I think there are some legitimate and compelling reasons why the US, or for that matter the UK or Australia would engage in surveillance on its own citizens. Without surveillance on its own citizens how could nations neutralize internal terrorist threats or combat well-organized crime?
As long as those legitimate and compelling reasons are clear and the agencies involved act within there remit and in accordance with the law. In the UK there is certainly the feeling that many (state and other) institutions are out of control and are not being held accountable.
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kirk5a
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by kirk5a »

Ben wrote:
kirk5a wrote:
Ben wrote:what secret laws?
http://reason.com/blog/2013/06/10/russ- ... secret-leg
oh for gods sake!
for gods sake what? is there some substance to your apparent objection?
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
Coyote
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by Coyote »

Mr Man wrote: As long as those legitimate and compelling reasons are clear and the agencies involved act within there remit and in accordance with the law. In the UK there is certainly the feeling that many (state and other) institutions are out of control and are not being held accountable.
Agreed. Just look at the recent reports concerning the police in the UK.
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by Modus.Ponens »

alan wrote:I'm about as liberal as you can get as far as American politics are concerned, but let's face it--by now, everyone knows electronic media is surveilled.
This guy made a big fuss, wasted his future, and accomplished nothing. Seems more like a loser than a hero.
So if Ghandi were to be crushed by the English and fail in the independence of India, he would be nothing but a loser? :shrug:

PS: I know Snowden is not Ghandi. Just an analogy.
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
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IanAnd
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by IanAnd »

Without surveillance on its own citizens how could nations neutralize internal terrorist threats or combat well-organized crime?
This is quite ironic when the current U.S. government (since the 1860s) has been and is the most organized crime syndicate on earth. Lincoln put an end to de jure government in the united States when in March of 1861 the Congress adjourned sine die (from the Latin "without day;" means "without assigning a day for a further meeting or hearing"), and has never since then re-adjourned under law. The U.S. has been run under Executive Emergency Rule ever since (something that is not in the Constitution and is therefore unlawful). What we have is a de facto federal government which operates outside the Constitution. The U.S. federal government is run by a corporate elite, long since having been unaccountable to the People.

Those brave enough to look into the real history of America (and not the propaganda taught in the Public schools) will easily be able to confirm this for themselves.
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Ben
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by Ben »

IanAnd wrote:
Without surveillance on its own citizens how could nations neutralize internal terrorist threats or combat well-organized crime?
This is quite ironic when the current U.S. government (since the 1860s) has been and is the most organized crime syndicate on earth. Lincoln put an end to de jure government in the united States when in March of 1861 the Congress adjourned sine die (from the Latin "without day;" means "without assigning a day for a further meeting or hearing"), and has never since then re-adjourned under law. The U.S. has been run under Executive Emergency Rule ever since (something that is not in the Constitution and is therefore unlawful). What we have is a de facto federal government which operates outside the Constitution. The U.S. federal government is run by a corporate elite, long since having been unaccountable to the People.

Those brave enough to look into the real history of America (and not the propaganda taught in the Public schools) will easily be able to confirm this for themselves.
And what I find ironic, dear Ian, is that intelligent people like you believe in this anemic conspiratorial drivel. It beggers belief.
If the political situation in the united states is so bad then may I suggest you do something about it. Afterall, it is a representative and responsible democracy not a totalitarian state.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by tiltbillings »

Ben wrote: is that intelligent people like you believe in this anemic conspiratorial drivel. It beggers belief.
Not at all. And with the continued browning of America -- and now with gay marriage -- the anemic conspiratorial drivel is only going to get worse.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by lyndon taylor »

I would have expected more enlightened responses!!!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

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tiltbillings
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by tiltbillings »

lyndon taylor wrote:I would have expected more enlightened responses!!!!
And what would a "more enlightened response" look like?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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lyndon taylor
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by lyndon taylor »

Perhaps comparing it to 1984, and how, while they claim it is only being used against terrorists now, they have the infastructure to spy on anyone and everyone they please, in the future even buddhists could be the target, or fringes of either political parties, depending on who's in charge. It sets a very bad precedent for free speech, some thing increasingly the courts are ruling is not a right anymore.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
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tiltbillings
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by tiltbillings »

lyndon taylor wrote:Perhaps comparing it to 1984, and how, while they claim it is only being used against terrorists now, they have the infastructure to spy on anyone and everyone they please, in the future even buddhists could be the target, or fringes of either political parties, depending on who's in charge. It sets a very bad precedent for free speech, some thing increasingly the courts are ruling is not a right anymore.
What do you think is actually being done?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Mr Man
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by Mr Man »

tiltbillings wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:Perhaps comparing it to 1984, and how, while they claim it is only being used against terrorists now, they have the infastructure to spy on anyone and everyone they please, in the future even buddhists could be the target, or fringes of either political parties, depending on who's in charge. It sets a very bad precedent for free speech, some thing increasingly the courts are ruling is not a right anymore.
What do you think is actually being done?
I don't think people actually know what is being done and this is one of the problems. I would speculate that large databases are being built profiling the citizenship and as tax payer I'm not convinced that this is the best use of my money or the best method for dealing with terrorism, crime etc. I would also imagine that information is used to help certain groupings vested interests and agendas.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Post by tiltbillings »

Mr Man wrote: I don't think people actually know what is being done and this is one of the problems. I would speculate that large databases are being built profiling the citizenship and as tax payer I'm not convinced that this is the best use of my money or the best method for dealing with terrorism, crime etc. I would also imagine that information is used to help certain groupings vested interests and agendas.
In other words, you have not really been reading what has been written about what is going on. There a fair amount of good info out there.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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