Edward Snowden, an American hero

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manas
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Edward Snowden, an American hero

Postby manas » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:02 pm

http://www.examiner.com/article/edward- ... rican-hero

It is sadly ironic that the U.S. Govt considers Snowden a traitor, when in fact, by spying on their own citizens in a way that goes against not only the spirit but also the letter of the U.S. Constitution itself, it is the Govt who are the traitors, not Snowden. I hope he finds a safe place somewhere, where he won't be found by their agents.

:anjali:
Last edited by manas on Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Snowden, an American hero

Postby Zom » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:17 pm

Sadly and ironic that all governments speak about Democracy and so on, while in reality use double standards )

Putin covers him in Moscow, because "he did bad to the US", while at the same time he forges false cases and throws to jail Russians who fight with massive corruption and theft in the country ))

Sad but true, our world is quite far from the Universal Monarch rule ))

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Re: Snowden, an American hero

Postby Modus.Ponens » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:46 pm

There is an interesting aspect to this: if we manage to continue to develop at the same pace, I predict that in 20-30 years every individual have the means to do what the US and UK governments are doing. It's at the same time scary and reassuring. Reassuring, because there will be a balance of power in information access.

In face of that, this action by Snowden is even more heroic and idealistic!
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Re: Snowden, an American hero

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:48 pm

manas wrote:http://www.examiner.com/article/edward-snowden-a-true-american-hero

It is sadly ironic that the U.S. Govt considers Snowden a traitor, when in fact, by spying on their own citizens in a way that goes against not only the spirit but also the letter of the U.S. Constitution itself, it is the Govt who are the traitors, not Snowden. I hope he finds a safe place somewhere, where he won't be found by their agents.

:anjali:
Actually, he is a jerk.
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Re: Snowden, an American hero

Postby manas » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:01 am

tiltbillings wrote:
manas wrote:http://www.examiner.com/article/edward-snowden-a-true-american-hero

It is sadly ironic that the U.S. Govt considers Snowden a traitor, when in fact, by spying on their own citizens in a way that goes against not only the spirit but also the letter of the U.S. Constitution itself, it is the Govt who are the traitors, not Snowden. I hope he finds a safe place somewhere, where he won't be found by their agents.

:anjali:
Actually, he is a jerk.


Could you elaborate on that, maybe give some specific reasons for your negative appraisal?

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Re: Snowden, an American hero

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:46 am

manas wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
manas wrote:http://www.examiner.com/article/edward-snowden-a-true-american-hero

It is sadly ironic that the U.S. Govt considers Snowden a traitor, when in fact, by spying on their own citizens in a way that goes against not only the spirit but also the letter of the U.S. Constitution itself, it is the Govt who are the traitors, not Snowden. I hope he finds a safe place somewhere, where he won't be found by their agents.

:anjali:
Actually, he is a jerk.


Could you elaborate on that, maybe give some specific reasons for your negative appraisal?
Have seen his interview where he grandiosely claims to have all this knowledge and all this power to wiretap anyone he sees fit (if he wished), including the POTUS?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Postby SDC » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:38 am

"Hero" is just too strong for me to accept. It took guts. There is also the off chance that he is an idiot.

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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:12 am

I'm surprised it is such a big news story. What did the people think the Patriot Act was? Certainly not giving us more freedoms and privacy! The Patriot Act was perhaps the biggest move away from privacy and freedom since the Alien and Sedition Act under Pres. Adams (and then later repealed under Jefferson). I thought it was common knowledge that the government had the power to do these things when Bush took away our freedoms.

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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Postby lyndon taylor » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:07 am

What's surprising is the Obama administration claiming this level of surveilance is normal, and there's nothing wrong with it, for those of us who supported him, He's turning out to be a big dissapointment.
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Postby Ben » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:37 am

In my opinion, I think there are some legitimate and compelling reasons why the US, or for that matter the UK or Australia would engage in surveillance on its own citizens. Without surveillance on its own citizens how could nations neutralize internal terrorist threats or combat well-organized crime?
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Postby kirk5a » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:44 am

Ben wrote:In my opinion, I think there are some legitimate and compelling reasons why the US, or for that matter the UK or Australia would engage in surveillance on its own citizens. Without surveillance on its own citizens how could nations neutralize internal terrorist threats or combat well-organized crime?

No government needs to conduct surveillance on all communications, all the time, in secret, based upon secret laws and secret courts, without meaningful oversight, without even informing its citizens that's what it's doing.
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Postby Ben » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:58 am

what secret laws?
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Postby kirk5a » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:07 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Postby Ben » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:38 pm

kirk5a wrote:
Ben wrote:what secret laws?

http://reason.com/blog/2013/06/10/russ- ... secret-leg

oh for gods sake!
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Postby alan » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:11 pm

I'm about as liberal as you can get as far as American politics are concerned, but let's face it--by now, everyone knows electronic media is surveilled.
This guy made a big fuss, wasted his future, and accomplished nothing. Seems more like a loser than a hero.

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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Postby imagemarie » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:47 pm

I'm about as liberal as you can get as far as American politics are concerned


Still, I think our Mahayana friends have the edge. Funny that.

http://genkaku-again.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... leaks.html

:anjali:

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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Postby alan » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:07 pm

It's data-mining, not spying. Signals Intelligence have always been used in war--this is just an updated version.

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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Postby Mr Man » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:16 pm

Ben wrote:In my opinion, I think there are some legitimate and compelling reasons why the US, or for that matter the UK or Australia would engage in surveillance on its own citizens. Without surveillance on its own citizens how could nations neutralize internal terrorist threats or combat well-organized crime?

As long as those legitimate and compelling reasons are clear and the agencies involved act within there remit and in accordance with the law. In the UK there is certainly the feeling that many (state and other) institutions are out of control and are not being held accountable.

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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Postby kirk5a » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:33 pm

Ben wrote:
kirk5a wrote:
Ben wrote:what secret laws?

http://reason.com/blog/2013/06/10/russ- ... secret-leg

oh for gods sake!

for gods sake what? is there some substance to your apparent objection?
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Re: Edward Snowden, an American hero

Postby Coyote » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:53 pm

Mr Man wrote:As long as those legitimate and compelling reasons are clear and the agencies involved act within there remit and in accordance with the law. In the UK there is certainly the feeling that many (state and other) institutions are out of control and are not being held accountable.


Agreed. Just look at the recent reports concerning the police in the UK.
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