More troubling news

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Dan74
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Re: More troubling news

Post by Dan74 »

binocular wrote:
householder wrote:
binocular wrote:On the other hand, if the "radical Buddhists" give up, and Burma becomes a Muslim country in a few decades, then who will be to blame?
Do you believe there is a concerted campaign to Islamise the country
Islam is an expansive religion. It has a history of conquering and subjecting other cultures/religions. This is what can be expected from it.

(personally I don't see evidence of this,

and would agree with reasonable and non-violent efforts to oppose it if there was),
That has never worked against Islam.

and do you support the tactics currently being used to counter this perceived threat?
No.
householder wrote:binocular, to be clear, are you supporting the actions of the rioters or the promotion of anti-Islamic fervor and boycotting?
No.
I think though that by now, it's simply too late for any kind of non-violent, peaceful action to still be effective.

Dan74 wrote:Of course this is only made up, because for those of us lucky to be living in a place like Australia, such barbarity is unimaginable. Muslims are a tiny minority in Burma. I understand that they were not particularly noteworthy except for their religion. Other minorities have been waging various struggles for independence and autonomy. But Muslims seem to have been singled out by nationalists and opportunists as fodder for their game. 5% is not going to become a majority in a few decades, this is scaremongering of the lowest kind.
Remember the story of the maluva creeper and the sala tree?

Expect this.
What you seem to be doing, binocular, is imputing an ideology and an intention to Burmese Muslims. What is your basis for this claim? Do you think they are a bunch of Bin Ladin clones? Have you been to a Muslim country yourself? I've traveled to Turkey recently as well as Indonesia and my impression was that most people there are Muslim by birth and don't actually know too much what it implies. How much more so in the case of poor Rohingya! I wonder if they knew that they were such a frightening threat to the Bamar majority, that they belonged to an expansionist religion, plotting quietly for the day when they take over? Come on, people are just people and most would have very little clue what being Muslim actually means apart from some vague notions about the Prophet, Allah, distant Mecca and praying.

This, to me, sounds too much like the Nazi propaganda against the Jews...
_/|\_
alan
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Re: More troubling news

Post by alan »

Agreed. So much for the so-called "Buddhist Monks" in Myanmar, who have shown themselves to be ruled by ignorance.
Does anyone now really believe Asian Buddhism isn't corrupted?
Last edited by alan on Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dan74
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Re: More troubling news

Post by Dan74 »

That said, Islam has plenty of great teachings (as well as some not so great) and I know some active Muslims who focus on the positive sides and sidestep or reinterpret the rest. It is problematic because it is a religion of the book, but people have essentially been doing this for centuries - following religions in a sensible positive way by picking the best out of it.
_/|\_
binocular
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Re: More troubling news

Post by binocular »

alan wrote:Agreed. So much for the so-called "Buddhist Monks" in Myanmar, who have shown themselves to be ruled by ignorance.
What would you do if you were in their place?
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
binocular
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Re: More troubling news

Post by binocular »

Dan74 wrote:That said, Islam has plenty of great teachings (as well as some not so great) and I know some active Muslims who focus on the positive sides and sidestep or reinterpret the rest. It is problematic because it is a religion of the book, but people have essentially been doing this for centuries - following religions in a sensible positive way by picking the best out of it.
When the going gets tough, such as in the general world crisis, people can be expected show and use their fangs. And some religions equip their followers with fiercer fangs than others.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
alan
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Re: More troubling news

Post by alan »

Pathetic and sad to watch this play out again.
Last edited by alan on Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
binocular
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Re: More troubling news

Post by binocular »

Dan74 wrote:What you seem to be doing, binocular, is imputing an ideology and an intention to Burmese Muslims. What is your basis for this claim?
So you start off with "seem", and by the end of the next sentence, arrive at "claim".

Do you think they are a bunch of Bin Ladin clones? Have you been to a Muslim country yourself? I've traveled to Turkey recently as well as Indonesia and my impression was that most people there are Muslim by birth and don't actually know too much what it implies. How much more so in the case of poor Rohingya! I wonder if they knew that they were such a frightening threat to the Bamar majority, that they belonged to an expansionist religion, plotting quietly for the day when they take over? Come on, people are just people and most would have very little clue what being Muslim actually means apart from some vague notions about the Prophet, Allah, distant Mecca and praying.
Just the sort of thing that the sala tree was told by his friends ...

This, to me, sounds too much like the Nazi propaganda against the Jews...
To me, it sounds like what someone would think who has read about Islam and from Islamic sources and is aware of the actual historical and potential implications.

Look, I think this comes down to opinions. I think it's sad what is going on in Burma (if the reports are anything to go by, even though there is reason to believe that at least some of it is media hype and some is flat out a lie), but I think I can understand how some of the monks and lays there have the sort of "radical" stance they do. That's all.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
alan
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Re: More troubling news

Post by alan »

Shame on you, binocular. This behavior is an egregious violation of everything Monks are supposed to do. Can you really not see it?
binocular
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Re: More troubling news

Post by binocular »

alan wrote:Does anyone now really believe Asian Buddhism isn't corrupted?
I think the bigger issue is how come some people have for so long worked out of utterly romantic notions about what Asian Buddhism is, could and should be.

Moreover, I think the bigger issue is how come some people have for so long worked out of utterly romantic notions about what life on Earth - in samsara - is, could and should be.

I think that having a more realistic sense of these things to begin with, one wouldn't be surprised over what can happen.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
binocular
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Re: More troubling news

Post by binocular »

alan wrote:Shame on you, binocular. This behavior is an egregious violation of everything Monks are supposed to do. Can you really not see it?
Who said I don't see it??!

I just don't judge them the way some other people do.


Jumping on the let's-judge-them waggon will somehow make one superior, a proper Buddhist?
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
alan
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Re: More troubling news

Post by alan »

Proper Buddhists don't get into gangs and kill people, that much I know for sure.
binocular
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Re: More troubling news

Post by binocular »

So what are you going to do? Go to Burma and give all those monks a spanking?


Seriously. People keep complaining about what is going on in Burma. Why not do something?
Contact the president of Burma, contact UNO, various human rights organisations, etc. etc. and request them to do something.
Ask the Dalai Lama to do something. Get all the other Buddhist dignitaries and visible, influential monks together and request them to take some action.

Taking out one's gall at a forum isn't really helping anyone, least of all the Buddhists and the Muslims in Burma.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
alan
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Re: More troubling news

Post by alan »

Maybe I'll just give you a spanking.
binocular
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Re: More troubling news

Post by binocular »

You're not serious.

:(
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
alan
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Re: More troubling news

Post by alan »

Sure I am. Your attitude needs to be spanked. And I'm just the guy to do it.
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