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Can the Bhikkhuni Sangha be revived as per the Vinaya? - Dhamma Wheel

Can the Bhikkhuni Sangha be revived as per the Vinaya?

A forum for members who wish to develop a deeper understanding of the Pali Canon and associated Commentaries, which for discussion purposes are both treated as authoritative.

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Can the Bhikkhuni Sangha be revived as per the Vinaya?

Postby dhammabum » Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:30 pm


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Ben
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Re: Can the Bhikkhuni Sangha be revived as per the Vinaya?

Postby Ben » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:58 pm

Since the OP has asked the question within the context of the ancient texts, this thread has been moved to the Classical Theravada forum.

Please ensure your posts comply with the guidelines for this forum.
kind regards,

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Re: Can the Bhikkhuni Sangha be revived as per the Vinaya?

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:56 pm

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pilgrim
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Re: Can the Bhikkhuni Sangha be revived as per the Vinaya?

Postby pilgrim » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:35 am

Its already been revived for about 2 decades now. I think a question of greater relevance is will it be accepted? As far as lay people go, I hardly see any opposition.

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Re: Can the Bhikkhuni Sangha be revived as per the Vinaya?

Postby lyndon taylor » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:12 am

Forgive me if I'm slightly off topic, but I was witness, here in Southern California, to ordained nuns over 20 years ago. WATBUDDHAGODOM was an interfaith south east Asian Buddhist Temple founded by a Lunpo from Vietnam, came as a refugee to Thailand, and settled In Highland California and built two small temples on a large block of land, now unfortuanetly a housing tract. He may have been Mahayana coming form Vietnam, but he was interfaith serving Vietnamese, Cambodian, Laotian, and Thai Buddhist, the majority of which were Therevada. The small Vietnamese temple had a huge 15' tall statue of "Mother" a woman with white skin, possibly related to Quan Yin, the Thai temple was traditional Therevada Thai buddhas. I lived there for several months around 1990.

Ok well now to my point, this Lunpo believed in the ordination of women, and had invited two or three Buddhist nuns to live at the temple, not in white, but full orange brown robes, they lived in a mobile home seperate from the monks quarters, the thing I don't know for sure is whether they were ordained in Mahayana or Therevada tradition, and where their ordination occured, unfortunately I knew so little about the absolute rarity of this situation, I never thought to question them about the circumstances of their ordination.

But yes, I believe the order of nuns has already been re-established, its just a matter of not everyone recognizing them, I haven't heard stories of them being ridiculed or disrespected for being nuns, just not everyone accepts that they actually are nuns, as many of them don't believe in nuns. Very much like women Christian or Catholic priests or ministers, they exist but are not universally accepted.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Re: Can the Bhikkhuni Sangha be revived as per the Vinaya?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:32 am

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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Re: Can the Bhikkhuni Sangha be revived as per the Vinaya?

Postby Nyana » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:37 pm


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Re: Can the Bhikkhuni Sangha be revived as per the Vinaya?

Postby Nyana » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:10 pm


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Re: Can the Bhikkhuni Sangha be revived as per the Vinaya?

Postby lyndon taylor » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:33 am

18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Re: Can the Bhikkhuni Sangha be revived as per the Vinaya?

Postby gavesako » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:00 am

See the very detailed analysis here:

The first part of Ven­er­a­ble Phra Payutto’s book ‘The Bud­dhist Dis­ci­pline in Rela­tion to Bhikkhu­nis: Ques­tions & Answers: Phra Payutto & Dr. Mar­tin Seeger’ is now available.

http://www.buddhistteachings.org/the-bu ... bhikkhunis

:reading:
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Re: Can the Bhikkhuni Sangha be revived as per the Vinaya?

Postby Mr Man » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:51 am

Ven­er­a­ble Gavesako, what is Ven­er­a­ble Phra Payutto’s conclusion to the question in the OP (if there is one)?
:anjali:

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gavesako
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Re: Can the Bhikkhuni Sangha be revived as per the Vinaya?

Postby gavesako » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:14 pm

It is not an easy Either/Or reply that you get from P.A. Payutto. He is very carefully reviewing all the reasons for establishing the various Vinaya rules and the historical developments during the Buddha's lifetime, but he says that it is not up to him to make some final decision on this point now.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Re: Can the Bhikkhuni Sangha be revived as per the Vinaya?

Postby Zom » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:00 pm


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Re: Can the Bhikkhuni Sangha be revived as per the Vinaya?

Postby yamaka » Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:01 am

I have no offense to these nuns,but don't you feeling funny when you are trying to mix up the dharmaguptaka order with the theravada?

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now realm
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Re: Can the Bhikkhuni Sangha be revived as per the Vinaya?

Postby now realm » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:26 am

I also have no issue too with bhikkhuni ordination in the Theravada lineage that was established by the Buddha if there's solid & valid legitimate grounds. However, the original lineage is no more in existence according to the history in Theravada Buddhism. I also find that the dharmagupta is more of a Mahayana or other lineages than Theravada. Also, was it the Buddha's intention to establish a Bhikkhuni Order? If so, why did he object to his aunt's request three times resoundingly? He would have told Ven. Ananda that it was his intention & there was no need for garudhamma to be imposed in the order. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone can revive an extinct lineage. An example is dinosaurs are extinct after many thousands of years in existence. Can then dinosours be revived? Buddha said everything exists, become & die out. Pls ignore, if what I said here is wrong due to my own interpretation or view & my lack of knowledge on this issue. Be calm.. :-)

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Re: Can the Bhikkhuni Sangha be revived as per the Vinaya?

Postby Sokehi » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:48 am

Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko


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Re: Can the Bhikkhuni Sangha be revived as per the Vinaya?

Postby pilgrim » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:50 pm



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