currently unmarried :3 // but inLove aww... Lubh'hatti (Maitri is better... no! Karuneya... rofl)
binocular wrote:
Gaoxing wrote:But look at from another side. It depends on the woman you married. If she's nothing but trouble you could end up running for a monastery sooner than you wished for. That's a kind of vehicle isn't it?
Nope. To ordain, you'd need to have your spouse's permission. And if the spouse is indeed trouble, they won't give that permission.
I'll try to make more serious jokes in the future.
there's no holy sacrament of the legitimate institutionalization of buddhist church called marriage; there's however a LOT of ethics about marriage-like actions in buddhist sutras.
so, that means that a buddhist can (because it is really not relevant) marry under the catholic church (sneaky, there's lots of sexy <redacted> that are nominally catholics)...
Gaoxing wrote:But look at from another side. It depends on the woman you married. If she's nothing but trouble you could end up running for a monastery sooner than you wished for. That's a kind of vehicle isn't it?
Nope. To ordain, you'd need to have your spouse's permission. And if the spouse is indeed trouble, they won't give that permission.
Dammit! Ok, that clarifies the matter. Marriage = suffering.
I'll try to make more serious jokes in the future.
there's no holy sacrament of the legitimate institutionalization of buddhist church called marriage; there's however a LOT of ethics about marriage-like actions in buddhist sutras.
so, that means that a buddhist can (because it is really not relevant) marry under the catholic church (sneaky, there's lots of sexy <redacted> that are nominally catholics)...
...or marry under Game Of Thrones' Deities!!!
Yeah but as for the Game of Thrones thing, in some countries you'll have to get married every three or six months to avoid common law troubles.
I think a lot of respondents to this thread are being overly pedantic.
And that is my fault as I did not explain that the material in my OP is from a Sri Lankan friend whose first language is not English.
So, reading the spirit of the original message is "Is marriage conducive to wholesome factors that assist in walking on the path?"
Perhaps we'll have a bit less pedantry and persiflage.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
I disagree with most of the logic and reasons provided in the OP.
As I see it, everyone (excluding arahants) experiences life as a sentient being subject to paticcasamuppada, and the life of a bhikkhu(ni) is the one the Buddha praised as most efficacious for the attainment of nibbana, and overcoming that arising.
That said, we're all in the same boat, lay or ordained, and whilst monastic circumstances might provide the more ideal environment for progress, there's doubtlessly pros and cons to each approach, and certain personality types that will find one mode of existence more authentic and true to their own sense of what is right, true and beneficial. Much of the path is about Right Intention and Right Effort, and whichever mode of living prompts these factors has certainly got something going for it.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
It can be skillful, or it can not be. It's a tool, like anything, it's more about how you use it than any intrinsic negatives or positives. They say motherhood is the fast track to Heaven. Well, the same I think could be said of a loving and caring relationship, where the partners care for each other and act upon wholesome feelings of metta and karuna.
Like anything, you can treat it as a kammathana - a working ground. It is a chance to perform skillful deeds that could make your quest to realize nibbana easier. Not to say that I'm suggesting all those who are seeking nibbana should go off and get hitched
Life is what you make it.
metta
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
Gaoxing:
No worries. I sometimes think that I am too unskilful for marriage, but here I am, still married for nearly 20 years. But being Buddhist doesn't mean that we are perfect, just walking on the path to perfection. Its something that I think a lot of Buddhists should keep in mind.
Paul:
Yes, I understand that there may be some logical leaps in the OP and that it is an artefact of cultural and LOTE modes of communication. Some of the points Sachin contends - I would respectfully disagree with him or add so much in the way of qualifier as to make it meaningless.
Hence, I attempted to refocus the discussion not so much on the letter of the OP, but the spirit.
Jack:
Thanks. Absolutely. I agree that many things can be opportunities for kammathana. Part of the inspiration for the thread has been my long-held attitude that life as a lay person is not second rate. And its a message that I try to communicate to those who may be seeking ordination thinking its the "be all and end all" on the path to the eradication of the defilements and that lay life does provide great opportunities for spiritual growth that may not be the same for those who remain as single lay practitioners or monastics. And I am the first to agree that not all marriages or LTRs are equal in their opportunities for spiritual growth.
kind regards,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
I have the above lines in this video quoted in my Buddha's Lists book as I remember laughing so loud when I first heard it. Of course it is mentioned for some levity, but there is also some truth to it. There are many opportunities to learn from our partner, to learn from our mistakes. And what a good way to cultivate brahma-viharas, for example karuna and metta so that our attachment is not too strong or too tight or controlling; upekkha during those confrontational times and mudita when the partner is praised or surpasses you in some endeavor (as opposed to jealousy).
Thank you, David.
The video was funny. And I agree, marriage can be a potent opportunity to develop the brahmaviharas but also the paramitas and sila. But I guess it depends on the individuals involved and the dynamic between them whether those opportunities and intention manifest themselves.
kind regards,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725