chownah wrote:I want to see how the Buddha teaches what is the proper way to meditate using these objects.
mettafuture wrote:chownah wrote:I want to see how the Buddha teaches what is the proper way to meditate using these objects.
Ven. Pa-Auk Sayadaw and Wikihow offer an interpretation of the instructions found in the suttas:
daverupa wrote:Rather, those found in the Visuddhimagga, etc. - the Nikayas do not contain that level of detail about them.
daverupa wrote:- the Nikayas do not contain that level of detail about them.
mettafuture wrote:daverupa wrote:Rather, those found in the Visuddhimagga, etc. - the Nikayas do not contain that level of detail about them.
The Mahāsakuludāyi Sutta (MN 77) explains how to contemplate the color kasinas.
to understand AN 10.25 directly in Pali: http://www.buddha-vacana.org/sutta/angu ... 0-025.html
Spiny Norman wrote:daverupa wrote:- the Nikayas do not contain that level of detail about them.
Though to be fair there isn't much detail in the suttas on technique for anapanasati either - basic stuff like whether eyes should be open or closed, whether attention should be at nostrils or abdomen, etc.
daverupa wrote:When comparing the instructions we do have for anapanasati with those for kasinas in the Nikayas, there is a stark imbalance. The steps of anapanasati are quite clear in contrast, and for example confusion over the idiom "parimukham" isn't a fault of the instructions.
They are simply not given equal attention in the Nikayas; after all, the Samyutta Nikaya has an anapanasati samyutta, but no mention of kasinas at all...
mettafuture wrote:The instructions are only clear because we've been told how to utilize them thanks to the commentaries of scholars and teachers. If we were completely new to Buddhism, and read a line like “Breathing in long, he understands: ‘I breathe in long’", I doubt most of us would immediately know what to do. And I don't think kasina meditation is more complicated.
daverupa wrote:It's a good point; additionally, the primary source materials describing anapanasati and it's relationship to satipatthana far outstrip what exists for kasinas in the Nikayas.
mettafuture wrote:daverupa wrote:It's a good point; additionally, the primary source materials describing anapanasati and it's relationship to satipatthana far outstrip what exists for kasinas in the Nikayas.
The frequency in which something is referenced shouldn't be used to measure its worth.
daverupa wrote:There is simply no parallel.
The Buddha is said to have practiced anapanasati frequently...
mettafuture wrote:"Monks, any brahmans or contemplatives who recollect their manifold past lives all recollect the five clinging-aggregates, or one among them. [...] When recollecting, 'I was one with such a perception in the past,' one is recollecting just perception. [...] And why do you call it 'perception'? Because it perceives, thus it is called 'perception.' What does it perceive? It perceives blue, it perceives yellow, it perceives red, it perceives white. Because it perceives, it is called perception."
-- SN 22.79
chownah wrote:It seems you are presenting this Sutta quote as an indication that kasinas are mentioned there.
Upon reading the Sutta it seems obvious that the perceiving of colors it mentions has nothing to do with kasinas at all and is just an explanation of what 'perception' means.
It seems that you consider any mention of color whatever to be a talk about kasinas. Is this your stance?....that any mention of color whatever is a talk about kasinas?
Can you explain the difference between kasina contemplation and self hypnosis if in fact you do see a difference?
mettafuture wrote:So why is it that Western Buddhists focus on just 1 or 2 of these objects (eg. anapanasati and metta)? Is it because our dhamma teachers don't feel that contemplating the elements or recalling the qualities of the Buddha could be compatible with our cultural sensibilities? Perhaps they aren't. But if that's the case, maybe we need to change something about ourselves rather than continue to selectively disregard large portions of the dhamma.
mettafuture wrote:I also feel that it may be a mistake to introduce breath meditation to every new Buddhist as their first meditation object.
Sekha wrote:The very weak point of your assertion here is that you consider that the public should adapt itself to the teaching
You cannot change the whole western culture to make it adaptable to the ways in which asian buddhist teachers like to teach.
Remember the Buddha did not teach all the suttas to all his disciples.
Sekha wrote:mettafuture wrote:I also feel that it may be a mistake to introduce breath meditation to every new Buddhist as their first meditation object.
Well, there are not many cases of people complaining about this.