Perhaps consider your source and/or your interpretation of it, can be wrong. There is much guff out there, on the net especially. Again, jhana is a skill like playing an instrument. No drug will help in that, you just have to learn it the hard way. There are no shortcuts sadly. Well, talent perhaps, but that is no drug.dxm_dxm wrote:
The steps I am experiencing while entering jhana on this drug are identical to what I experience when sober and to what I read should happen. As a matter of fact I entered second jhana and did now know it for 2 times and then after reading how to do it so that I could get there I found out it was the second and payed more atention and it was exaclty what was supposed to happen (in one of the 2 sources, as I said the information is contradicting on the net).
A drug that helps meditating ?
- reflection
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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?
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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?
Hi DXM,
would you post a link to the meditation instructions you are using? Also could you describe in more details your experience of the jhana when you dont use the drug.Also how long it takes you to enter it, how long you can stay in it and most important, why dont you practice the jhana every time without the drug, if you have learned how to do it?
would you post a link to the meditation instructions you are using? Also could you describe in more details your experience of the jhana when you dont use the drug.Also how long it takes you to enter it, how long you can stay in it and most important, why dont you practice the jhana every time without the drug, if you have learned how to do it?
Re: A drug that helps meditating ?
you're probably going to catch a lot of flack here for this, but i'm willing to engage in discussion about this even in private if this thread gets deleted. i think it's an important topic.
IMO, the purpose of Jhana & meditation in general is not to turn away from sensory experience but to clearly understand it & how it's effecting the mind. If we short cut around learning how to skilfully manage how our mind responds to sensory input we are effectively missing the point of meditation and missing out on a lot of what long term meditation practice has to teach us. I don't think meditation practice is totally about the 'end goal', or the Jhanas themselves, but learning how to get there as a skill.
You are losing the practical reality thinking about theory. Been disociated from the body makes the body pain, the senses etc. that can distract you dissapear. It is the same as an isolation chamber. Can you say that because meditation in an isolation chamber is more powerfull it is not right meditation ?
IMO, the purpose of Jhana & meditation in general is not to turn away from sensory experience but to clearly understand it & how it's effecting the mind. If we short cut around learning how to skilfully manage how our mind responds to sensory input we are effectively missing the point of meditation and missing out on a lot of what long term meditation practice has to teach us. I don't think meditation practice is totally about the 'end goal', or the Jhanas themselves, but learning how to get there as a skill.
my memory primarily... my short term memory and temporal sequencing are severely damaged & it's been almost 15 years since I've used dxm. I believe it also effected my eyesight & my stomach... these effects have persisted as well.In what aspect ? I am afraid of lowering your brain capacities in some way and doing it slowly so that you do not notice. I would apreciate an honest and argumented opinion.
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."
Re: A drug that helps meditating ?
What on earth have you actually attained if you can't do this without a hallucinogen. There are drastic changes that these kinds of drugs do to your brain. Your body naturally produces serotonin to dream/sleep. If you introduce something into your system that takes over this process or puts it in over drive, you risk the brain completely shutting the natural process down. The human body is ruthless with this kind of thing... It's why astronauts start losing bone mass in space, the body thinks, "WELL, I don't have this gravity thing I have to constantly struggle against, I'll just stop repairing bone structure" It worries me greatly that you take this drug, if your brain stops creating Serotonin naturally, and you stop taking this drug you risk become INTENSELY depressed.
How can you be sure you even have any attainments, perhaps your mind is tricking yourself into thinking you've attained something because that's what it desires. I have had reoccurring dreams over many years in which I can play the guitar and draw VERY well. When I wake up I haven't gained any skill in either of them though. Please re-think your use of this drug. At the very least think about the saying "If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is, OR , Anything worth having is worth working for.
Be well
How can you be sure you even have any attainments, perhaps your mind is tricking yourself into thinking you've attained something because that's what it desires. I have had reoccurring dreams over many years in which I can play the guitar and draw VERY well. When I wake up I haven't gained any skill in either of them though. Please re-think your use of this drug. At the very least think about the saying "If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is, OR , Anything worth having is worth working for.
Be well
- Crazy cloud
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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?
My approach to this temting shortcut to the fruits of the dhamma is; NO NO NO
The three jewels is not a nice picture on the wall - it's dimonds inside my mind, and they are my dearest companions on my path to freedom
To disrespect these teachings is actually not possible for me - and the love for all these countless superheroes who has walked the path before and gathered these fragments of dimonddust, means that they deserves my best effort.
Lord Buddha said we have three sets of parents: the ones that brings you to life - the ones that teach you right from wrong - the ones that gives you the dhamma
We shold respect our parents, all of them
The three jewels is not a nice picture on the wall - it's dimonds inside my mind, and they are my dearest companions on my path to freedom
To disrespect these teachings is actually not possible for me - and the love for all these countless superheroes who has walked the path before and gathered these fragments of dimonddust, means that they deserves my best effort.
Lord Buddha said we have three sets of parents: the ones that brings you to life - the ones that teach you right from wrong - the ones that gives you the dhamma
We shold respect our parents, all of them
No luck today on my mendicant rounds;
From village to village I dragged myself.
At sunset I find myself with miles of mountains between me and my hut.
The wind tears at my frail body,
And my little bowl looks so forlorn --
Yes this is my chosen path that guides me
Through disappointment and pain, cold and hunger.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you
We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain
Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you
We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain
Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
Re: A drug that helps meditating ?
Greetings everyone,
After reading some members concerns regarding this thread, we have decided to close it down.
Despite what the OP has stated, he is engaging in promoting the use of an intoxicating pharmaceutical that has been known to cause liver damage in users.
The promotion of behaviour that is clearly in breach of the precepts and is harmful, and may be illegal in certain jurisdictions is not condoned by David, myself and the Dhamma Wheel moderation team. The drug use "discussed" by the OP is completely contrary to the spirit and letter of the Theravada. There are no short-cuts on the path of Dhamma which require the development of sila, samadhi and panna.
kind regards,
Ben
After reading some members concerns regarding this thread, we have decided to close it down.
Despite what the OP has stated, he is engaging in promoting the use of an intoxicating pharmaceutical that has been known to cause liver damage in users.
The promotion of behaviour that is clearly in breach of the precepts and is harmful, and may be illegal in certain jurisdictions is not condoned by David, myself and the Dhamma Wheel moderation team. The drug use "discussed" by the OP is completely contrary to the spirit and letter of the Theravada. There are no short-cuts on the path of Dhamma which require the development of sila, samadhi and panna.
kind regards,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: A drug that helps meditating ?
PS: I want to thank those members who expressed their concerns via the report function regarding this thread, as well as those who attempted to counter the OPs suggested practice on this thread.
with metta,
Ben
with metta,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..