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A drug that helps meditating ? - Dhamma Wheel

A drug that helps meditating ?

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
dxm_dxm
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A drug that helps meditating ?

Postby dxm_dxm » Thu May 23, 2013 1:16 am

I thought a lot about whether to post this or not because this might lead to more bad things than good things but I am the first to do this discovery and there is nothing about it on the internet. I ask the moderators to think about whether this post should be deleted or not and do it if they think it's better. I am not at all encouraging people to do this.

As far as I know the proprieties of drugs there is no other drug that will help you at meditation even a little. Not even the related drugs ketamine and pcp, they are different enough in their proprieties to make your mind wander more, not at all do what this thing does.

The drug is dxm, number 1 psichadellic, lsd been nr 2 acording to many. It is a dissociative and what this drug basically does is cut of your mind from your body, that is the whole magic about it. The body is a big impediment in meditation because it can hurt, it can distract you and you can not leave your body in the same position for 5 hours as a beginer to meditate. Besides that, it simply makes your meditation a LOT more powerfull and does not distract you with any of his other drug effects. I am simply shoked such a thing can exist, it is a real shortcut and I was very sceptical such shortcuts can exist. Meditation in an isolation chamber, isolated from your senses is way more powerfull so the "mind cut from the body" part is good in this way also.

I did a month of samatha meditation on this drug like once every 3 days. Before I did this I was not able to enter the first jhana, I could only get at acces concentration and just a couple of times got a little taste of first jhana. While on the drug I am always able to enter the first jhana in just 2 breaths (yes, 2 times in-breath, out-breath) and I do that just to be sure, could prob even enter jhana directly it;s like my mind want;s to get there and I am keeping it from doing so with my regular business. After 1 month of doing 5 hours of meditation every 3 days on this drug and 30 min meditation in normal days I was able to enter second jhana while on this drug and stay there, a couple of times. The progres I made on this drug is visible in normal meditation. I am able to enter first jhana every time I meditate now, not able to enter the second yet withought the drug. The progres is due to the fact that I am able to meditate 5 hours in a row, something unthinkable for a novice. I am very happy that I just skiped the hard part meaning going to first jhana. It is a lot more easy and am way more enthisuastic when starting my meditation now.

About the side effects of this drug: am not advocating it but they are low. None of them are confirmed but it is belived it can damage your liver and your short term memory. Depending on the user other side effects can be very bad. It is not physical addictive but it is very psichologically adictive. It is easy to get off of it and on the same time it is not. (contradicting but true). The fact that it's almost free and avaliable at any drug store makes it even harder to get off of it. Like any drug it encourages craving in you. Even craving for progress in meditation that it brings with it is a craving too, if you use it for this.


Two things I have to ask:

1. Am I understanding corectly the second jhana ? While been in the first jhana I reach a point where I do not have to maintain my focus wilingly on the plesant sensation, it's like it's going on by itself and the type of pleasure is a little bit different but I can not say that it is emotional pleasure insead of sensual pleasure like I read that it should be. I think it is second jhana because the voluntary attention on the pleasant sensation is dropped, the way I describe it is "like sitting on a car chair and the chair drops on the back" lol

2. How can I get to the third jhana. I read you have to change your focus from the emotional pleasure to contentment but I did not change the focus from physical plesant sensation to emotional sensation in the first place, I just got to a point where I dropped my focus and it continued on it;s own like I read in the second guide I found on the internet. I suppose there is another thing that I should drop now to get to the third jhana.

I do not have a teacher in the place where I am living now, budhism is almost non existent in my country and for some reason there is almost no practical information about working with jhanas on the internet. If anybody experienced in this could pm me and also help me in the future I would be very glad.


Again, I ask the moderators to think if it would be more usetfull to delete this.

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reflection
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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?

Postby reflection » Thu May 23, 2013 1:37 am

Hi,

With all respect, by its very nature jhana can not be induced by a drug. You are mistaken and I very highly recommend you drop the stuff and start with a clean slate. For your own well-being, please.

With metta,
Reflection

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retrofuturist
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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu May 23, 2013 1:42 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?

Postby Lazy_eye » Thu May 23, 2013 1:45 am

Just happened to be listening to a talk by Joseph Goldstein where he discusses the pain that arises while meditating for, say, 5 hours. He suggests that encountering this pain can be important to developing our awareness of dukkha and impermanence as applied to the body.

If that's the case, taking a "shortcut" would be seemingly counterproductive...

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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?

Postby dxm_dxm » Thu May 23, 2013 2:16 am

Jhana is not induced by the drug, the drug just helps meditation by taking your body out of the way. Besides the body problem it somehow improves concentration, by a lot. Getting into first jhana into 2 breaths is something superhuman. I do not know if advanced monks are able to do that cause of been advanced or if it is something posible only on the drug. I can not enter first jhana after 2 breaths withaught the drug for sure lol. I am very, very sure about at least the first jhana. There is out of the question been some similar effect of the drug.

Another thing about it: the dosage has to be right. If the dossage is right you enter jhana instanlty. If it is too high it is imposible to meditate because the mind will be very agitated.


I am not encouraging it but this is something totally unknown. I am the only one that knows this at least on the internet and this is the only drug from hundreds that exists that can do this. I don't expect to see this drug been given to all the monks on a regular basis from now on lol but I decided to post it so I am not the only one having the information now

After I will become advance at meditating I will take this drug a couple of times and also try it while doing vipassana. It is highly unprobable but if it boosts your meditating at the same ratio as it does in a novice that would be something.

Something intrigues me. If I am able to get into first jhana in 2 breaths then I should be sky rocketing to the 4th jhana in 5 hours. Why did it take 1 month of this to get just to the second ?

@lazy eye - that is is vipassana meditation
If this drug proves effective in vipassana I'll be even more carefull not to die too soon.

Scientist should do a couple of brain scans and research on this highly underestimated and ignored drug.

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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?

Postby Lazy_eye » Thu May 23, 2013 3:08 am


dxm_dxm
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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?

Postby dxm_dxm » Thu May 23, 2013 3:36 am

This drug does not induce jhana. Meditation induces jhana, this drug makes meditation easier by cuting you from the body, the same as an isiolation chamber. The main thing of this drug been a dissociative is cuttin the mind from the body. You can;t take this drug and jump to second third etc. jhana, you have to follow the same steps as usual only that this drug makes it easier. It also improves concentration a lot and maby somebody could tell me why because I have no great knowledge in this field. I suppose the substances it helps the brain release (serotonine etc.) help at this. It might have something to do with the brainwaves.

Of course there is a conection between the jhanic states and the brainwaves and substances released in the brain while in this states. There have been studies on this.


Another thing - the goal in budhism is not developing concentration meditation, it is achieving enlightment through insight meditation.

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retrofuturist
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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu May 23, 2013 5:27 am

Greetings,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recreation ... methorphan

:alien:

:toilet:

Looks pretty stupid to me... both health-wise, and from the fact that "the DXM FAQ" cites intoxication (i.e. a violation of the 5th precept) even from the point of the so-called "first plateau".

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?

Postby Feathers » Thu May 23, 2013 5:39 am

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Aloka
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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?

Postby Aloka » Thu May 23, 2013 5:43 am

Hi dxm_dxm,

I think that you are mistaken in thinking that any hallucinogenic drug can be beneficial to you because you are risking your physical health and your brain/mind in the process . Its also possible to become extremely deluded about the benefits of drug-induced states.

Years ago, when I was a student, I experimented with hallucinogenic drugs and had some blissful experiences, some of them lasting for days - but I also saw others who took hallucinogenics ending up with serious mental health issues and unable to function as they had before. Two people I knew were hospitalised.

The experiences don't last - they fade away - and one still has to carry on living a normal life, interacting with others, and earning a living.

Give up taking drugs now -and never recommend them to others - is my advice.

With kind wishes

Aloka

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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?

Postby purple planet » Thu May 23, 2013 6:34 am

there are some bad sides - i didnt experience jahana (that im 100% sure its jhana at least) so i cant say that you dont experience jhana so with the assumption that you do:

if you die it will stop your advancement even some illness can stop your advancement and that i would say is not the middle way - everything you do that can harm your body in this way is not the middle way so it wont advance you - your body is important without it you cannot continue to advance in the path in this life and who knows what will be your next life

stuff are impermanent and that drug will someday lose its usefulness and you will be stuck again with dealing with your body and wont advance and also have lots of frustration because of it which will make things even harder

one of the great obstacles in the path i read about and also experienced : are steps that you feel as if you made progress but you actually didnt - i felt different levels of calm and i still dont assume its jhanas -

i think there are good reasons for each precept - which all come to help us advance to nirvana so if its forbidden to use drugs there probably is a good reason why

i think the minimum you should do is talk to a teacher at least throw the internet - where are you from? did you look really good in google ? maybe someone who is far away ? i drove to my teacher (with waits at the bus stops) 4-5 hours went did a retreat and from then i dont go see him i just call him on the phone

i believe also you advance faster if you have pain and you overcome it - i think 1 hour of pain is worth 5 hours without pain - of course be careful that this pain wont cause real damage but to a certain point its good

so if you would take for instance pain killers and sit for a day im not sure you will get far - unless you have other things to overcome like boredom or a itching feeling
Last edited by purple planet on Thu May 23, 2013 7:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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reflection
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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?

Postby reflection » Thu May 23, 2013 7:19 am


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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?

Postby reflection » Thu May 23, 2013 7:36 am


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polarbear101
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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?

Postby polarbear101 » Thu May 23, 2013 8:49 am

When you first came on here dxm I was wondering if your name referred to the drug found in cough syrup that teenagers often "robo-trip" on.

I had a friend I used to smoke weed with all the time back in high school who got really into taking dxm, it eventually made him noticeably significantly slower. He went from someone with average intelligence to someone with below average intelligence and was obviously a bit out there from then on.

Any "meditative" state that is induced with the help of drugs is not going to be a meditative state that the Buddha would have suggested one should cultivate. It seems to me that you're just getting high on dxm, which allows you to stay motionless for long periods of time and bliss out while being aware of it, this is not jhana.

Also, you are taking dxm way too often. Basically you're saying that you have been overdosing on cough syrup every few days for a month in order to meditate, when you think about it that way, doesn't it seem rather silly?

Seriously though, you should lay off the cough medicine.

:soap:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

perkele
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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?

Postby perkele » Thu May 23, 2013 8:57 am


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Lazy_eye
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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?

Postby Lazy_eye » Thu May 23, 2013 11:04 am


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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?

Postby Zenainder » Thu May 23, 2013 11:17 am

My blog:

dxm_dxm
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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?

Postby dxm_dxm » Thu May 23, 2013 1:06 pm


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reflection
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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?

Postby reflection » Thu May 23, 2013 1:34 pm

Well, you are wrong. It ain't jhana. I have explained why, but of course you will not be convinced by me as you have already convinced yourself of something else. Doesn't mean I am wrong, though. So, if anybody in the future reads this thread and might be interested, I hope they will trust me: don't be tempted, dxm_dxm is mistaken and clouded. Meditation is to be done without drugs or it won't be meditation. It is not cultivation of mind, but mere drugging.

The fifth precept is there with a reason. I don't mean to enforce it on anybody of course, but those who consider drugs to be an aid in meditation should seriously reconsider why it's there.

dxm, you justifying your use and saying "of course I will quit (but not now)" sounds like the classical addict, I hope you realize that.

Keep well,
Reflection
Last edited by reflection on Thu May 23, 2013 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A drug that helps meditating ?

Postby dxm_dxm » Thu May 23, 2013 1:45 pm

Last edited by dxm_dxm on Thu May 23, 2013 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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