Master Gautama detailed 40 meditation objects over the course of a 45-year teaching career. So why is it that Western Buddhists focus on just 1 or 2 of these objects (eg. anapanasati and metta)? Is it because our dhamma teachers don't feel that contemplating the elements or recalling the qualities of the Buddha could be compatible with our cultural sensibilities? Perhaps they aren't. But if that's the case, maybe we need to change something about ourselves rather than continue to selectively disregard large portions of the dhamma.
I also feel that it may be a mistake to introduce breath meditation to every new Buddhist as their first meditation object. I've heard people try to make the point that anapanasati can fulfill all four satipatthanas, therefore special attention doesn't need to be given to the individual satipatthanas. But does it really make sense to skip developing at least a rudimentary understanding of the body, feelings, consciousness, and mental objects before jumping ahead to the breath?
The Breath, and Cherry-Picking for Cultural Convenience
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Re: The Breath, and Cherry-Picking for Cultural Convenience
There are many ways to practice the Dhamma. The Buddha highly recommended breath awareness, which is one of the reasons why teachers also recommend it as well. Another reason is that the breath is an object that suits everyone, even though it may not be the best object to start with for everyone. Other objects on the other hand may not suit everyone and must therefore be assigned personally, which requires specific skills that imo are not easy to develop.
In short, the breath is a sure bet, unlike other objects.
In short, the breath is a sure bet, unlike other objects.
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Re: The Breath, and Cherry-Picking for Cultural Convenience
The monks at my local monastery who teach meditation do teach meditation on the elements and on the qualities of the Buddha. But speaking for myself, I had to do quite a lot of focusing on the breath before I could make sense of contemplation of the elements. In so far as I have any understanding of the elements, the breath was the gateway to this.
It might be, but how would teachers determine the best object for particular students? There might be teachers around who have supernatural insight into exactly what people need, on first meeting them. But I've only met one in my entire life, and they weren't a Buddhist. Most meditation teachers - including monastics - seem to be people who are just better at meditating than me, and have good ways of explaining things. And these ways of explaining things seem to work for large groups of people. Within a monastery, it would be much more likely that a teacher could spend time with the pupil and get to know lots about them. But for a lay meditation teacher or monastic dealing with a group of lay beginners for a "taster" or even a retreat - how would they know?I also feel that it may be a mistake to introduce breath meditation to every new Buddhist as their first meditation object.
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Re: The Breath, and Cherry-Picking for Cultural Convenience
The Buddha held anapanasati in high regard, but he didn't prescribe this meditation first when encountering a lay follower. For the laity, ethical and/or devotional practices on the precepts (AN 8.25) and recollections (AN 11.13) often took precedent.Sekha wrote:The Buddha highly recommended breath awareness, which is one of the reasons why teachers also recommend it as well.
I doubt the Buddha shared this sentiment. If he did, he wouldn't have bothered teaching 39 other objects of meditation. One size clearly doesn't fit all.Another reason is that the breath is an object that suits everyone
There's nothing inherently more difficult about the recollections. I meditate on them daily, and they have been exceedingly helpful in cultivating samadhi and confidence in the triple gem.Other objects on the other hand may not suit everyone and must therefore be assigned personally, which requires specific skills that imo are not easy to develop.
Last edited by mettafuture on Wed May 22, 2013 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Breath, and Cherry-Picking for Cultural Convenience
That's excellent.Sam Vara wrote:The monks at my local monastery who teach meditation do teach meditation on the elements and on the qualities of the Buddha.
I found it easier to meditate on the breath after doing metta meditation (hence the username).But speaking for myself, I had to do quite a lot of focusing on the breath before I could make sense of contemplation of the elements. In so far as I have any understanding of the elements, the breath was the gateway to this.
The teacher could take a traditional approach and start with the 5 recollections. What makes the Buddha an arahant, perfectly enlightened, accomplished in true knowledge and conduct, fortunate, a knower of the world, an unsurpassed leader of persons to be tamed...It might be, but how would teachers determine the best object for particular students?
If the teacher doesn't want to chase away secularist students, he/she could start with the usual dhamma study and breath meditation. However, if someone is having difficulty following the breath, the teacher should offer a different meditation object to counter whatever is hindering their concentration; foulness to counter sense desire, metta to counter ill-will, and so on.
Pre-interview. Meditation teachers must stop passing out a bunch of size 7 shoes and hoping that they'll fit everyone's foot. Retreats need to begin with a group dialog, or utilize anonymous surveys so that the teacher can have a feeling for the kinds of problems the students may encounter during meditation.But for a lay meditation teacher or monastic dealing with a group of lay beginners for a "taster" or even a retreat - how would they know?
Re: The Breath, and Cherry-Picking for Cultural Convenience
The recollections work well for those who have deep confidence in the three jewels, which is not necessarily the case in the west nowadays where the majority of people do not want to be involved in any kind of purely devotional practice, and prefer practicing something which is disconnected from any form of folkloric background. For that reason, it makes sense to introduce breath awareness by default to the western public. Another reason for this choice is that anapanassati leads all the way to Nibbana whereas the 3 anussatis lead to the first jhana at best. So while they are certainly useful to the "faith-tempered", the 3 anussati will have to be replaced by some other object anyway.mettafuture wrote:The Buddha held anapanasati in high regard, but he didn't prescribe this meditation first when encountering a lay follower. For the laity, ethical and/or devotional practices on the precepts (AN 8.25) and recollections (AN 11.13) often took precedent.Sekha wrote:The Buddha highly recommended breath awareness, which is one of the reasons why teachers also recommend it as well.
Please quote me properly:mettafuture wrote:I doubt the Buddha shared this sentiment. If he did, he wouldn't have bothered teaching 39 other objects of meditation. One size clearly doesn't fit all.Another reason is that the breath is an object that suits everyone
Your commentary completely ignores the fact underlined in the part of the sentence you deliberately decided not to quote so as to deform my statement. If you are correct, then how do you explain the following statement:"the breath is an object that suits everyone, even though it may not be the best object to start with for everyone."
"If a monk should wish: 'May I, with the complete transcending of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, enter & remain in the cessation of perception & feeling,' then he should attend carefully to this same concentration through mindfulness of in-&-out breathing.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
I was talking about the 39 objects as a whole. In the specific case of the recollections, it may be easier to assign them to the practitioners than in the case of other subjects like the four elements. Some teachers though may feel concerned that the person being assigned one of the recollections may disregard an object that allows to dig deeper in the mind (the breath) for objects that work only on the surface (recollections).mettafuture wrote:There's nothing inherently more difficult about the recollections. I meditate on them daily, and they have been exceedingly helpful in cultivating confidence in the triple gem and samadhi.Other objects on the other hand may not suit everyone and must therefore be assigned personally, which requires specific skills that imo are not easy to develop.
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Re: The Breath, and Cherry-Picking for Cultural Convenience
That would certainly be a good idea, but if they lack the skill, time or inclination to do that, there is some canonical evidence that the Buddha might have discovered a "one-size-fits-all" training shoe:mettafuture wrote: Meditation teachers must stop passing out a bunch of size 7 shoes and hoping that they'll fit everyone's foot.
Ven. Ananda went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, bowed down to him and sat to one side. As he was sitting there he addressed the Blessed One, saying, "Is there one quality that, when developed & pursued, brings four qualities to completion? And four qualities that, when developed & pursued, bring seven qualities to completion? And seven qualities that, when developed & pursued, bring two qualities to completion?"
"Yes, Ananda, there is one quality that, when developed & pursued, brings four qualities to completion; and four qualities that, when developed & pursued, bring seven qualities to completion; and seven qualities that, when developed & pursued, bring two qualities to completion. And what is the one quality that, when developed & pursued, brings four qualities to completion? What are the four qualities that, when developed & pursued, bring seven qualities to completion? What are the seven qualities that, when developed & pursued, bring two qualities to completion?
"Mindfulness of in-&-out breathing, when developed & pursued, brings the four frames of reference[1] to completion. The four frames of reference, when developed & pursued, bring the seven factors for Awakening to completion. The seven factors for Awakening, when developed & pursued, bring clear knowing & release to completion.
Re: The Breath, and Cherry-Picking for Cultural Convenience
There's a sutta where one wanderer/monk describes his breath meditation, and the Buddha says yeah, that's breath meditation all right, but let me show you how to really get something done (I paraphrase). He then frames it in terms of satipatthana tetrads.mettafuture wrote:Master Gautama detailed 40 meditation objects over the course of a 45-year teaching career...
So, I suspect that the Buddha always taught satipatthana, and as the various wanderers brought in their various methods they got put together in the list if they could be done so as to align with that. The thing about anapanasati is that we have the specific way the Buddha "satipatthana'd" breath meditation, while the other methods (kasina discs, etc.) are not as clearly described, at first. Since anapanasati is also heavily lauded throughout the Nikayas, I find a focus on it entirely appropriate.
The other 39 objects may be functional, but while I mightI see them as interesting from a historical point of view, I also see them as an unnecessary additional complexity.
Last edited by daverupa on Tue May 21, 2013 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: The Breath, and Cherry-Picking for Cultural Convenience
People prefer sense pleasures as well. Teachers shouldn't only give talks on select portions of the dhamma simply because Westerners prefer a watered down version of it. Before metta, satipatthana, and the 4 elements became more acceptable, I had to search very hard (too hard) to find information on these topics.Sekha wrote:The recollections work well for those who have deep confidence in the three jewels, which is not necessarily the case in the west nowadays where the majority of people do not want to be involved in any kind of purely devotional practice, and prefer practicing something which is disconnected from any form of folkloric background.
Possibly, but it shouldn't stop there.For that reason, it makes sense to introduce breath awareness by default to the western public.
There are 10 recollections (anussatis), and, according to the Vera Sutta (AN 10.92), the first 4 can lead to stream entry.Another reason for this choice is that anapanassati leads all the way to Nibbana whereas the 3 anussatis lead to the first jhana at best. So while they are certainly useful to the "faith-tempered", the 3 anussati will have to be replaced by some other object anyway.
That was a mistake. I was copying and pasting quotes between tabs, trying to type replies for you and Sam Vara at the same time.Your commentary completely ignores the fact underlined in the part of the sentence you deliberately decided not to quote so as to deform my statement.
As with all of the discourses directed to monastics, a lay follower can also apply the lessons found in this sutta. However, considering there are over 330 suttas which directly address lay followers, perhaps we could at least add the teachings of these texts into our repertoire."If a monk should wish: 'May I, with the complete transcending of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, enter & remain in the cessation of perception & feeling,' then he should attend carefully to this same concentration through mindfulness of in-&-out breathing.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
I don't see any reason why a student would disregard breath meditation if they started with something other than the breath.mettafuture wrote:In the specific case of the recollections, it may be easier to assign them to the practitioners than in the case of other subjects like the four elements. Some teachers though may feel concerned that the person being assigned one of the recollections may disregard an object that allows to dig deeper in the mind (the breath) for objects that work only on the surface (recollections).
Re: The Breath, and Cherry-Picking for Cultural Convenience
I don't regard the practice of anapanassati as a watered down version of the Dhamma. But I think I see what you mean. However, the Dhamma must be 'inviting to come and see', so it is understandable that teachers would take their time to address the matters that are liable to make people run away instantly. They prefer convincing first their listeners with things they would agree upon more easily, before tackling the tough matters, which imo is advisable.mettafuture wrote:People prefer sense pleasures as well. Teachers shouldn't only give talks on select portions of the dhamma simply because Westerners prefer a watered down version of it.Sekha wrote:The recollections work well for those who have deep confidence in the three jewels, which is not necessarily the case in the west nowadays where the majority of people do not want to be involved in any kind of purely devotional practice, and prefer practicing something which is disconnected from any form of folkloric background.
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Re: The Breath, and Cherry-Picking for Cultural Convenience
You could do that. Or you could meditate on something else. My point is that there are several roads to stream entry and nibanna, and there may be people who could benefit from learning about those other roads.Sam Vara wrote:mettafuture wrote:That would certainly be a good idea, but if they lack the skill, time or inclination to do that, there is some canonical evidence that the Buddha might have discovered a "one-size-fits-all" training shoe:
Personally, I've gotten a lot more from the first 5 recollections than I've gotten from breath meditation. The more I reflected on the qualities of the Buddha, the easier it became for me to see the Dhamma outside of my personal and cultural attachments.
I also had a deep seated fear of death. Contemplating impermanence and not-self through the 4 elements helped me overcome this fear.
The Mahāhatthipadopama Sutta (MN 28) has very clear instructions on how to meditate on the 4 elements, impermanence, and not-self. The Mahārāhulovāda Sutta (MN 62) covers the 4 elements and the 4 divine abodes, and it wraps it all together with a breath meditation bow.daverupa wrote:The thing about anapanasati is that we have the specific way the Buddha "satipatthana'd" breath meditation, while the other methods (kasina discs, etc.) are not as clearly described, at first.
The Buddha spent a lot of time prescribing different approaches for different people.
Renunciation is also heavily lauded, but you don't see many Western teachers giving talks on it.Since anapanasati is also heavily lauded throughout the Nikayas, I find a focus on it entirely appropriate.
I'm not saying that we need to learn how to use every meditation object, but we should know they exist.The other 39 objects may be functional, but while I might see them as interesting from a historical point of view, I also see them as an unnecessary additional complexity.
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Re: The Breath, and Cherry-Picking for Cultural Convenience
But the 40 objects described in the Visuddhimagga relate to samatha bhavana, not to satipatthana.daverupa wrote:So, I suspect that the Buddha always taught satipatthana, and as the various wanderers brought in their various methods they got put together in the list if they could be done so as to align with that. The thing about anapanasati is that we have the specific way the Buddha "satipatthana'd" breath meditation, while the other methods (kasina discs, etc.) are not as clearly described, at first. Since anapanasati is also heavily lauded throughout the Nikayas, I find a focus on it entirely appropriate.
Last edited by Spiny Norman on Tue May 21, 2013 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Breath, and Cherry-Picking for Cultural Convenience
I suspect that most western meditation teachers simply don't have enough experience or knowledge of the other 39 objects of samatha, because these have been neglected in favour of the breath. So it's chicken and egg. I've dabbled with kasina practice for example, but it's very difficult to find teachers who are competent to advise.mettafuture wrote:Is it because our dhamma teachers don't feel that contemplating the elements or recalling the qualities of the Buddha could be compatible with our cultural sensibilities?
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Re: The Breath, and Cherry-Picking for Cultural Convenience
If I may weigh in (haphazardly), I am from the States and was introduced to breath as my first meditation object. This is likely a limited comment coming from limited knowledge, but culturally speaking for a westerner to be still and focus on anything is an incredibly daunting feat. The western culture is fast paced and encourages perpetual distraction. It is also encourages to doubt, rather unskillfully I will add. With that in mind the breath is what I would consider a favorable meditation object for Westerners because it is easily relatable, leaves less room for doubt, and easy to understand.
It may be "cherry picking" to fit the culture, but one of the greatest things that struck me about Buddhism is that it is not cookie cutter and very personal. Westerners also tend to refrain from what may seem religious tradition and other objects may have that poor association. Personally, I consider it a skillful means of teaching.
It may be "cherry picking" to fit the culture, but one of the greatest things that struck me about Buddhism is that it is not cookie cutter and very personal. Westerners also tend to refrain from what may seem religious tradition and other objects may have that poor association. Personally, I consider it a skillful means of teaching.
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Re: The Breath, and Cherry-Picking for Cultural Convenience
I used to think that. Then I came across the 4 tetrads of anapanasati.Zenainder wrote:With that in mind the breath is what I would consider a favorable meditation object for Westerners because it is easily relatable, leaves less room for doubt, and easy to understand.
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