Classical definition of papañca

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Classical definition of papañca

Postby Coyote » Sun May 19, 2013 5:01 pm

How does the commentary/abhidhamma define this concept? Not looking for sutta definition but specifically the classical position, if it does have a definition in commentary at all.
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
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Re: Classical definition of papañca

Postby robertk » Sun May 19, 2013 5:45 pm

from the mulapraiyaa suuta.Bod
hi writes “It is significant in this respect that the
commentary glosses the word mannana by the word papanca, The
activity of conceiving, the commentary points out, is motivated
by three underlying mental factors which impart to x craving
(tanha) , conceit , and views . Under the influence of craving
the egoistic bias comes to expression in thoughts of longing and
desire. Under the influence of conceit it becomes manifest in
judgments and comparisons whereby we rank ourselves…. as
superior, equal, or inferior. And under the influence of views,
i.e. the theoretical bent of thought, the ego-bias issues in
dogmas, tenets, and speculations concerning the reality and
nature of the personal self and its focus, the world. Whereas
the uninstructed worldling conceives the aggregates through
craving, conceit, and views' '' This is mine, this am I, this
is my self,'' the learner knows to reverse this mode of
consideration. Applying his direct knowledge to the aggregates,
he contemplates them thus : '' This is not mine, this am I not,
this is not my self '' By the first he attenuates craving, by
the second of self. As he persists in his practice of
contemplation, his insight gradually develops to maturity,”
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Re: Classical definition of papañca

Postby robertk » Sun May 19, 2013 5:48 pm

. There are three papanca – tanha (desire),
ditthi(view) and mana (conceit). (see netti pakarana
paragraph 203, 204).
these three are said to prolong
samasara vata , the round of births and deaths.
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Re: Classical definition of papañca

Postby robertk » Sun May 19, 2013 5:54 pm

in the majjhima nikaya
in MN11 he glosses papanca by "prolifireation"
to be most common:

“Friends, that goal is for one who does not delight in and enjoy
proliferation, not for one who delights in and enjoys proliferation.”

his footnote, : “Proliferation (papanca), according to MA [the
commentary by buddhaghosa], is here mental activity governed by craving and views.”
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Re: Classical definition of papañca

Postby robertk » Sun May 19, 2013 5:56 pm

in the subcommentary to he mulapraiyaya sutta, translated by bodhi

“Papa~ncasa’nkhaa = portions of papa~nca (papa~ncako.t.thaasa). Because of
these, beings are detained (papa~ncanti) in sa’msaara, i.e delayed, thus
these are ‘proliferating tendencies.’ ‘Conceiving (ma~n~nanaa): because of
these people conceive, i.e misconstrue (parikappenti) things as ‘This is
mine’, etc. Craving, conceit, and views are referred to here by two
synonymous terms, ‘conceivings’ and ‘proliferating tendencies’.
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Re: Classical definition of papañca

Postby mikenz66 » Sun May 19, 2013 7:46 pm

Hi Coyote,
Coyote wrote:How does the commentary/abhidhamma define this concept? Not looking for sutta definition but specifically the classical position, if it does have a definition in commentary at all.

In his book "Concept and reality in early Buddhist thought", Bhikkhu Nanananda has a chapter on Commentarial Interpretations, with quotations from the Maha Nidesa, Nettiparkarana, (which are classified as part of the Canon), Milindapanha, and the Commentaries collected by Ven Buddhaghosa.

Obviously I can't reproduce the whole chapter, but here are the quotes from the Maha Nidesa.

Nid. I 280:
Papancas themselves are papancasamkha, to wit: papanca-samkhas of craving, views, and conceit.

Nid. I 344-5
Papancas themselves are papancasamkha: papancasamkhas of craving and views. What is the root of craving-papanca? Ignorance is the root, wrong reflection is the root, the conceit "I am" is the root, lack of shame is the root, lack of fear is the root, restlessness of the root. What is the root of views-papanca? Ignorance ... restlessness is the root.


:anjali:
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Re: Classical definition of papañca

Postby Coyote » Mon May 20, 2013 6:44 pm

Thank you both. I wonder if either of you could give your opinion on whether Ven. Thanissaro's opinion that papanca is not conceptual proliferation but instead framing things in terms of self aligns with classical teaching.

Metta
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
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Re: Classical definition of papañca

Postby robertk » Mon May 20, 2013 6:52 pm

it sounds reasonable, although I like "misconstruing things as 'me''or 'mine' "better..
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Re: Classical definition of papañca

Postby Coyote » Mon May 20, 2013 6:58 pm

Thank you, Robert.

Metta
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
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Re: Classical definition of papañca

Postby mikenz66 » Mon May 20, 2013 7:05 pm

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