The causes for wisdom

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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kirk5a
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by kirk5a »

When I follow up on the explanation given in the Visuddhimagga for the manner of practice for the "sukkha-vipassaka" what I find is instructions to go on solitary retreat, direct attention to the various aspects of the body, discern the elements, make effort and develop concentration.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
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mikenz66
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by mikenz66 »

dhamma follower wrote:
So, this is just as much a "method" as anything else
This is the reason I wrote this:
dhamma follower wrote: This description might lead one to think that there is in fact an exercise that one must try to do. But in reality, it is totally an empty process, causes and effects, causes and effects. If there is trying to make it, it can not happen, because then it is done by the idea of someone who can, and by the desire to get something. The entire process is ignated actually by a clear understanding that it is an empty proccess, which is conditioned by right understanding now. This is a subtle point that we have a great difficulty getting across
And I have given you quotes from at least two other teachers (and you've added Sayadaw T yourself) who say essentially the same thing. So it's not something unique to Ajahn Sujin. How could it be, when it's the teaching of the Buddha? Of course, anyone can say that they are not operating with the "idea of someone who can". Whether they really are another matter.

:anjali:
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binocular
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by binocular »

tiltbillings wrote:
mikenz66 wrote:I think you (the students) would be much more convincing if you simply explained your approach, and discussed commonalities with other Dhamma students, rather than putting so much effort into arguing about differences. In my experience, that is never fruitful.
But it is not just arguing about differences, but adamantly stating that those who differ from Sujin's point of view are categorically wrong, on a wrong path, deluded by self, motivated by lobha.
So?

No, really: let's explore this.

What exactly is wrong with one teacher and her school looking down on others and directly or indirectly claiming she is the one who has the right understandign of the Buddha's teachings?
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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retrofuturist
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
dhamma follower wrote:As soon as there's idea of a method, it is the idea of someone who can (attend to the realities as they arise).
I'm not sure whether this is an "English as a second language" issue, or whether this is actually what Sujin teaches, but that is just plain stupid.

That's like saying, "as soon there's idea of a Noble Eightfold Path, it is the idea of someone who can (follow that path)"

I'm glad the Buddha didn't suffer from puggalaphobia... :?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by tiltbillings »

binocular wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
mikenz66 wrote:I think you (the students) would be much more convincing if you simply explained your approach, and discussed commonalities with other Dhamma students, rather than putting so much effort into arguing about differences. In my experience, that is never fruitful.
But it is not just arguing about differences, but adamantly stating that those who differ from Sujin's point of view are categorically wrong, on a wrong path, deluded by self, motivated by lobha.
So?

No, really: let's explore this.

What exactly is wrong with one teacher and her school looking down on others and directly or indirectly claiming she is the one who has the right understandign of the Buddha's teachings?
You tell me what is not wrong with it.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
binocular
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by binocular »

tiltbillings wrote:You tell me what is not wrong with it.
What did you expect?
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by tiltbillings »

binocular wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:You tell me what is not wrong with it.
What did you expect?
That.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
binocular
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by binocular »

retrofuturist wrote:puggalaphobia...
Good term!
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
binocular
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by binocular »

tiltbillings wrote:
binocular wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:You tell me what is not wrong with it.
What did you expect?
That.
You think I'm being too peaceful about all this?

You think it's time for some Vajra wrath?
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by tiltbillings »

binocular wrote:
You think I'm being too peaceful about all this?
I do not understand the question.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
binocular
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by binocular »

There is a person who appears to be proposing to know the one and only truth about what the Buddha really taught and meant. And this person sometimes has a negative attitude toward others.

I point out that this sort of thing is to be expected in this world. That's just how it is. There is no use to get upset over it.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by tiltbillings »

binocular wrote:There is a person who appears to be proposing to know the one and only truth about what the Buddha really taught and meant. And this person sometimes has a negative attitude toward others.

I point out that this sort of thing is to be expected in this world. That's just how it is. There is no use to get upset over it.
Was I upset? The last time I checked (10 seconds ago) I have not been; however, that does not mean that such business should not be responded to.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Alex123
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by Alex123 »

dhamma follower wrote: [1] "Of those, right view is the forerunner. And how is right view the forerunner? One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view. And what is wrong view?
So what? One learns conceptually what is path and what is not, and then one follows it.
dhamma follower wrote:What is, for you, the meaning of sukha vipassana?
Some people don't have that much obscurations, so their samādhi does not have to be as strong. If it works for you, then great. I have lots of defilements.
binocular
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by binocular »

tiltbillings wrote:
binocular wrote:There is a person who appears to be proposing to know the one and only truth about what the Buddha really taught and meant. And this person sometimes has a negative attitude toward others.

I point out that this sort of thing is to be expected in this world. That's just how it is. There is no use to get upset over it.
Was I upset? The last time I checked (10 seconds ago) I have not been; however, that does not mean that such business should not be responded to.
What business should not be or should be responded to?
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by tiltbillings »

binocular wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
binocular wrote:There is a person who appears to be proposing to know the one and only truth about what the Buddha really taught and meant. And this person sometimes has a negative attitude toward others.

I point out that this sort of thing is to be expected in this world. That's just how it is. There is no use to get upset over it.
Was I upset? The last time I checked (10 seconds ago) I have not been; however, that does not mean that such business should not be responed to.
What business should not be or should be responded to?
Start a new thread.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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