Ajahn Brahm for sale?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Anagarika
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Anagarika »

I just hope he makes lots of money for the bhikkuni monastery.
I agree. That's why I posted above the current status of the bids. If he raises in total from the auction subscription fee and final high bid, let's say, A$75,000, that would seem to be enough to purchase materials, some expert labor, and along with monk and lay labor, build a sizable building for the Bhikkhunis.

see http://youtu.be/L3J_n02nfLg
suceta
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by suceta »

The first reaction I felt when I saw Ajahn Brahm for sale was how could I help.

In another incarnation as a forest monk (some 20 years ago) imbued with knowledge of the Vinaya, I would have criticised him much like some who already have.

But now with more wisdom, knowledge and preference to judge my own mental formations that the deeds of others, I would really have to say this:

1. The world and the Sasana would be a better place if there was much goodwill towards one another.

2. That forgiveness and kindness go hand-in-hand with our progress on the path.

3. That all this public hand-wringing does nothing but much more damage than Ajahn Brahm would do in two lifetimes.

I must confess that I am no fan of Ajahn Brahm. By the same token, I am more concerned of what I can do to help the Sasana and not overly hung up on the nuances of the Vinaya. Mind and intention is more important than following rites and rituals.
He should develop [contemplation of] the unattractive so as to abandon passion.
He should develop good will so as to abandon ill will.
He should develop mindfulness of in-&-out breathing so as to cut off thinking.
He should develop the perception of inconstancy so as to uproot the conceit, 'I am.'
For a monk perceiving inconstancy, the perception of not-self is made steady.
One perceiving not-self attains the uprooting of the conceit, 'I am' — unbinding right in the here-&-now.

Meghiya Sutta (ref: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html)
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Sekha
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Sekha »

If I am permitted to give my opinion, I agree with Cittasanto, Retro and Thanissaro Bhikkhu, not because I am a "dour face" conservatist but because of what is written in the Vinaya:
Nissaggiya Pācittiya: Rules entailing forfeiture and confession wrote:18. Should any bhikkhu accept gold and silver, or have it accepted, or consent to its being deposited (near him), it is to be forfeited and confessed.

20. Should any bhikkhu engage in various types of trade, it (the article obtained) is to be forfeited and confessed.
Vinaya-samukkamsa: The Innate Principles of the Vinaya wrote: Bhikkhus, whatever I have not objected to, saying, 'This is not allowable,' if it fits in with what is not allowable, if it goes against what is allowable, this is not allowable for you.
I consider obvious putting oneself "for sale" to the highest bidder and then use the money for one's projects (whatever they are) fits in with "having money accepted" and engaging in "various kinds of trade" (trading one's time, as any consultant does).
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tiltbillings
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by tiltbillings »

Naughty bhikkhu!!!
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Sekha
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Sekha »

tiltbillings wrote:Naughty bhikkhu!!!
I don't know to which extent you are aware that this kind of behavior only discredits the pow you stand for, as it makes it sound like you are short of arguments and have no other option than resorting to emotional reactions.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by tiltbillings »

Sekha wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Naughty bhikkhu!!!
I don't know to which extent you are aware that this kind of behavior only discredits the pow you stand for, as it makes it sound like you are short of arguments and have no other option than resorting to emotional reactions.
Naughty me!!!
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Sekha
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Sekha »

:roll:
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tiltbillings
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by tiltbillings »

Poor Ajahn Brahm. Not a very good teacher, all those scandals, not knowing the Vinaya very well, and now this. {{{sigh}}}
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Anagarika
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Anagarika »

tiltbillings wrote:Poor Ajahn Brahm. Not a very good teacher, all those scandals, not knowing the Vinaya very well, and now this. {{{sigh}}}
Yeah, and that Mahatma Gandhi fellow was a real troublemaker, too,
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Sekha
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Sekha »

This is about whether a particular action fits in what is allowed by the Vinaya or not.
I see no reason to take it as a personal attack against AB.
:anjali:
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Ajahn Brahmali wrote:
... but by no means do I say that money may be consented to or sought for in any way at all.
What the poster does not mention is that this concerns becoming the owner of money oneself. Clearly, this is not what Ajahn Brahm is doing.
The 10 points discussed at the Second Council included accepting money "for the Sangha," not for one's personal needs.

Whether, its for one's own needs, or for the Sangha's needs, asking for monetary donations is not allowable. If an invitation is made, one can say what the Sangha needs.

I don't think this would apply to urging people to donate to, e.g. victims of a cyclone or an earthquake, because it is neither for oneself, nor for the Sangha. Still, putting conditions on such donations, saying, “If you donate $100 to the relief fund I will give a talk would still be unsuitable for a monk.”

This is not going to cause the demise of the Buddhasāsana, but its worth reminding people that donations and teachings must both be given with no strings attached.
Last edited by Bhikkhu Pesala on Sun May 12, 2013 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mindstar
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Mindstar »

I remember Ajahn Brahm saying:
To baldly go where no man has ever gone before
I think it fits :lol:

Higher than lordship over all earth,
Higher than sojourning in heavens supreme,
Higher than empire over all the worlds,
Is Fruit of Entrance to the Dhamma Stream.
—Dhammapada
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by DNS »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: The 10 points discussed at the First Council included accepting money "for the Sangha," not for one's personal needs.

Whether, its for one's own needs, or for the Sangha's needs, asking for monetary donations is not allowable. If an invitation is made, one can say what the Sangha needs.
Hi Bhante,

Wasn't that the Second Council? And wasn't that when the monks were specifically going out on alms requesting money? At least somewhat different, if not completely different from what Ajahn Brahm is doing.

Also notable at the Second Council was the rejection of "Following a certain practice (which violates Vinaya) because it was done by one's tutor or teacher."
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Yes, of course, my mistake, it was the Second Council.

The monks put out a donation bowl and asked the devotees to donate money for the Sangha's needs:
Tena kho pana samayena Vesālikā vajjiputtakā bhikkhū tadahuposathe kaṃsapātiṃ udakena pūretvā majjhe bhikkhusaṅghassa ṭhapetvā āgatāgate Vesālike upāsake evaṃ vadanti — “dethāvuso, saṅghassa kahāpaṇampi aḍḍhampi pādampi māsakarūpampi. Bhavissati saṅghassa parikkhārena karaṇīya”nti.
I don't have time to look up a translation at the moment.
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Alex123
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Post by Alex123 »

How will Theravāda survive with such strict rules regarding money, etc? This is not 5th Century BC India. What worked then and there might not work today.

Didn't the Buddha allow to remove minor rules? So what is the problem? These are not Pārājika or Saṅghādisesa offenses.
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