Vipassana:formal practice or technique or daily life?classic

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robertk
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Re: Vipassana: formal practice or technique or daily life?

Postby robertk » Mon May 06, 2013 9:38 am

One of the things that is crucial to know is that, according to classical Theravada the way of vipassana and the way of samatha are different.
Howewer the wise one who is skiled in samattha, may if endowed with mastery of jhana, may even learn to see jhana factors directly as anatta , dukkha and anicca.

It should also be noted that this jhanalabhi is said to be uncommon or even no longer viable. So most of my posts will be discussing the sukkha vipassaka , dry insight worker, who does not attain mundan jhana.

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Ben
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Re: Vipassana: formal practice or technique or daily life?

Postby Ben » Mon May 06, 2013 9:47 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Ben
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Re: Vipassana: formal practice or technique or daily life?

Postby Ben » Mon May 06, 2013 10:12 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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robertk
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Re: Vipassana: formal practice or technique or daily life?

Postby robertk » Mon May 06, 2013 10:17 am

Now to come back to my opening posts
First I would like to look at the two ways: samatha and vipassana
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dhammastu ... sage/99247
, Sarah quotes from Atthasalini, 'Fourfold
Jhana', PTS transl.

Sarah: > Now here's the paragraph on the two kinds of jhana with the
Pali below.
(Quoted by Scott before):

"Jhaana is twofold: that which (views or) examines closely the object
and that which examines closely the characteristic marks
[aaramma.nupanijjhaana~n ca lakkha.nupanijjhaana.m]. Of these
two, 'object-scrutinising' jhaana examines closely those devices [for
self-hypnosis]* as mental objects. Insight, the Path and Fruition are
called 'characteristics-examining jhaana.' Of these three, insight is
so called from its examining closely the characteristics of
impermanence, etc. Because the work to be done by insight is
accomplished through the Path, the Path is so called. And because
Fruition examines closely the Truth of cessation, and possesses the
characteristic of truth, it also is called 'characteristic-examining
jhaana.'

"Of these two kinds of jhaana, the 'object-examining' mode is
here intended. Hence, from its examining the object and extinguishing
the opposing Hindrances, jhaana is to be thus understood."

Pali:

"Duvidha.m jhaana.m aaramma.nupanijjhaana~n ca lakkha.nupanijjhaana~n
ca.
Tattha a.t.thasamaapatti-pa.thaviikasi.naadiaaramma.nam upanijjhaayatii
ti
aaramman.nupanijjhaanan ti sa"nkha"gataa vipassanaa. Maggaphalaani pana
lakkha.nupanijjhaana.m naama.

Tattha vipassanaa aniccadilakkha.nassa upanijjhaayanato
lakkha.nupanijjhaana.m , vipassanaaya katakiccassa magge ijjhanato maggo
lakkha.nupanijjhaana.m phala.m pana nirodha-sacca.m. Tattha lakkha.nam
upanijjhaayatii ti lakkha.nupanijjhaana.m.

Tesu imasmi.m atthe aaramma.nupanijjhaanam adhippeta.m. Kasmaa?
Aaramma.nupanijjhaanato pacaniikajjhaapanato vaa jhaanan ti veditabba.m"

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robertk
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Re: Vipassana: formal practice or technique or daily life?

Postby robertk » Mon May 06, 2013 10:26 am


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Re: Vipassana: formal practice or technique or daily life?

Postby robertk » Mon May 06, 2013 1:27 pm

related to my earlier post about contemplation as a prime cause.
contemplation can be at the level of pondering the teachings, but it can go deeper.
terms like bhavana and jhaya are related.

Sometimes the word bhavana is used to refer to either samatha or the development of vipassana (which is actually satipatthana).

When the texts talk about meditation, jhaya, it is useful to know that there are two types.

The Dhammapada 371 :"
Meditate, o bhikkhu and be not heedless
."

The atthakatha(Commentary) says "o bhikkhus meditate by the two kinds of meditative absorptions" And the tika notes that this is twofold in "the sense of meditative absorption that arises depending on an object and meditative absorption that arises dependent on characteristics"
The tika later explains this by saying that the first is (p506 note 6 of carter and palihawadana) "the eight attainments (jhanas) to be obtained by training the mind in concentrating on one of the thirty eight objects such as kasina [or metta, or Buddha or Dhamma or breath etc] and the second means 'insight wisdom, path and fruit'..to be obtained by reflecting on the three characteristics'"
it is this latter way, which is the way of vipassana that i want to explore in this thread.

Now when it says 'reflecting' this includes direct insight into the actual characteristics and conditions of the present moment(patipatti) right up to the vipassana nanas and magga and phala(pativedha). The Dhammapada pradipaya (see p457 of carter) says "to consider the coming into being of rupa on account of ignorance, craving, kammaand nutrition, and also to see the mere characteristics of its instantaneous coming into being, without looking for causative aspect; thus one should consider the rise of rupa in five ways. Likewise to consider the rise of
the other 4 khandas in the same way...Thus the rise of the pancakkhanda (five aggregates )is seen in 25 ways. To see that the rise of the khandas is stopped by abolishing the causes:ignorance, craving, kamma and nutrition..in this way the cessation of the agregates should be seen

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mikenz66
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Re: Vipassana:formal practice or technique or daily life?cla

Postby mikenz66 » Mon May 06, 2013 11:28 pm


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retrofuturist
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Re: Vipassana:formal practice or technique or daily life?cla

Postby retrofuturist » Mon May 06, 2013 11:30 pm

Greetings,

In Visuddhimagga, to what extent are "insight wisdom" (vipassana-nana) and "vipassana" regarded as synonymous?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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mikenz66
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Re: Vipassana:formal practice or technique or daily life?cla

Postby mikenz66 » Mon May 06, 2013 11:52 pm





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Ben
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Re: Vipassana:formal practice or technique or daily life?cla

Postby Ben » Tue May 07, 2013 5:57 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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robertk
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Re: Vipassana:formal practice or technique or daily life?cla

Postby robertk » Tue May 07, 2013 9:56 am

Robert:I read this in something Nina Van Gorkom wrote:



NINA: the Atthasaalini (Cittupaada, Analysis of Terms): By samaya is shown
the concurrence of conditions, the mutual contribution towards the
production of a common result. The Expositor explains with regard to
samaya as condition:

ATTHASALINI (BUDDHAGHOSA} <By this word showing thus the condition, the
conceit of one who believes that states unconditionally follow one’s
own will is subdued.>

NINAIn the same passage: It shows the extreme shortness of the time in
the occurrence of kusala citta and it points out


ATTHASALINI (BUDDHAGHOSA} <the extreme rarity
of such moments>.

NINA It stresses that advice has been given that we
should have strenuousness and earnestness in pa.tivedha, realization
of the truth, since this is very difficult:
<

ATTHASANLINI (buddhaghosa} as difficult for the
mind as stringing pearls in the dark by a lightning-flash, because of
its extremely short duration.>


I will withdraw from this thread for now.

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kirk5a
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Re: Vipassana:formal practice or technique or daily life?cla

Postby kirk5a » Tue May 07, 2013 1:47 pm

I've been waiting to see something that bears on the question: formal practice or technique or daily life? My understanding is that Mahavihara was a monastery. How did they practice?
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Re: Vipassana:formal practice or technique or daily life?cla

Postby tiltbillings » Tue May 07, 2013 5:36 pm


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Re: Vipassana:formal practice or technique or daily life?cla

Postby mikenz66 » Tue May 07, 2013 7:21 pm



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