More important: view or practice?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

More important: view or practice?

Postby Stephen K » Thu May 02, 2013 4:14 pm

I remember a conversation between a Tibetan Buddhist (Namdrol) and a Zen Buddhist (Genkaku). The Tibetan Buddhist said that view is more important than practice, while the Zen Buddhist disagreed, saying that practice is more important than view.

What would a Theravada Buddhist say?
With metta,
Upāsaka Sumana
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Re: More important: view or practice?

Postby reflection » Thu May 02, 2013 5:18 pm

They are both right.
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Re: More important: view or practice?

Postby fivebells » Thu May 02, 2013 5:23 pm

Which is more important to physical vision: the visual cortex, or the eyes? If either goes missing, you don't have much left.
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Re: More important: view or practice?

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Thu May 02, 2013 5:36 pm

Perhaps the division between view and practice is a false one. After all, Right View is in itself a practice. It's not just about sitting there with the right opinions and thoughts - it's about training yourself to see things in a way that is in accord with the Dhamma, and it is as much a skill to develop as Right Mindfulness or Right Concentration.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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Re: More important: view or practice?

Postby daverupa » Thu May 02, 2013 5:40 pm

Practice runs and circles around right view, ideally.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: More important: view or practice?

Postby Coyote » Thu May 02, 2013 5:41 pm

LonesomeYogurt wrote:Perhaps the division between view and practice is a false one. After all, Right View is in itself a practice. It's not just about sitting there with the right opinions and thoughts - it's about training yourself to see things in a way that is in accord with the Dhamma, and it is as much a skill to develop as Right Mindfulness or Right Concentration.


:goodpost:

Though I would go further and say that right view has primacy in that it is the beginning and end of the path.
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
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Re: More important: view or practice?

Postby m0rl0ck » Thu May 02, 2013 6:39 pm

"Right view" without practice is like any other view, just another source of pride, disappointment and discontent.
"When you meditate, don't send your mind outside. Don't fasten onto any knowledge at all. Whatever knowledge you've gained from books or teachers, don't bring it in to complicate things. Cut away all preoccupations, and then as you meditate let all your knowledge come from what's going on in the mind. When the mind is quiet, you'll know it for yourself. But you have to keep meditating a lot. When the time comes for things to develop, they'll develop on their own. Whatever you know, have it come from your own mind.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... eleft.html
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Re: More important: view or practice?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu May 02, 2013 10:58 pm

Greetings,

daverupa wrote:Practice runs and circles around right view, ideally.

That's precisely what I was thinking...

MN 117 wrote:"One tries to abandon wrong view & to enter into right view: This is one's right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right view.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
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Re: More important: view or practice?

Postby kirk5a » Fri May 03, 2013 12:36 am

Stephen K wrote:I remember a conversation between a Tibetan Buddhist (Namdrol) and a Zen Buddhist (Genkaku). The Tibetan Buddhist said that view is more important than practice, while the Zen Buddhist disagreed, saying that practice is more important than view.

What would a Theravada Buddhist say?

I would say it is more important to have a practicable view.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
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Re: More important: view or practice?

Postby hopedhamma » Fri May 03, 2013 2:18 am

The most important thing to start with is the understanding of dhamma and the nature of it. Starting from the understanding of what dhamma really is will result in the correct path which are the right view and the right practice. The understanding of dhamma comes from being friends with people who know dhamma, to listen to dhamma discussion, to read, and to analyze dhamma when it appears. You can actually start by reading Abhidhamma.
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