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No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana? - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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daverupa
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Re: No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana?

Postby daverupa » Thu May 02, 2013 10:33 am

Indeed, unremitting satipatthana is a better goal to set than jhana, when first beginning samadhi.

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reflection
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Re: No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana?

Postby reflection » Thu May 02, 2013 10:38 am

Just to point out the distinction "sutta" vs "commentary" is deceiving. Of course those who practice the latter kind also think the suttas describe them and that the Buddha taught them. Just in case you didn't know. And then still there is not a clear distinction to be made.

But I agree with tilt that it's better to forget about these things. Perhaps not only at this point, but for a long time.

:anjali:

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Mojo
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Re: No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana?

Postby Mojo » Thu May 02, 2013 11:07 am


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daverupa
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Re: No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana?

Postby daverupa » Thu May 02, 2013 11:17 am


Zakattack
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Re: No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana?

Postby Zakattack » Thu May 02, 2013 11:39 am


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Spiny Norman
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Re: No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana?

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu May 02, 2013 12:32 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Spiny Norman
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Re: No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana?

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu May 02, 2013 12:43 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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daverupa
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Re: No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana?

Postby daverupa » Thu May 02, 2013 1:13 pm


Zakattack
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Re: No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana?

Postby Zakattack » Fri May 03, 2013 12:14 am


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Spiny Norman
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Re: No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana?

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri May 03, 2013 8:30 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Spiny Norman
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Re: No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana?

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri May 03, 2013 8:34 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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daverupa
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Re: No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana?

Postby daverupa » Fri May 03, 2013 10:51 am


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Kamran
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Re: No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana?

Postby Kamran » Fri May 03, 2013 1:45 pm

Piti with just breath can take a long time, but if you add one of the brahma viharas, in particular mudita(appreciative joy), piti often arises right from the beginning.

If interested, I have found the below combination of breath and Mudita to cause piti to arise consistently:

1) still the mind with breath for 20 min.

2) Then while still noticing the breath, think of a memory that made you feel happy for someone, such as your children opening presents on Christmas day.

3) Notice the subtle warm pleasant feeling that arises.

4) Drop the memory and focus on the feeling, and smile to yourself both inwardly and outwardly....spread the feeling around your whole body by moving your awareness around ( body scan).

5) Piti sensation arises.

6) Continue following the breath, smiling, and bathing yourself in the warm "happiness for others" feeling.
"Silence gives answers"

Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Rumi

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fivebells
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Re: No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana?

Postby fivebells » Fri May 03, 2013 9:26 pm

I agree, Kamran. That is a great way to practice.

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Mojo
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Re: No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana?

Postby Mojo » Sat May 04, 2013 3:13 am

I've started experimenting with Thanissaro's instructions. I think perhaps they may be what I need right now. There have been some posts about the relationship between samadhi and mindfulness that have helped me think about anapanasati in a different light than I had before. Thank you all for your input!

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Mojo
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Re: No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana?

Postby Mojo » Tue May 07, 2013 4:48 am

I am waiting for a copy of Thanisareo's Each and Every Breath to arrive in the mail but had printed the "method" portion from the pdf when I was at the library last week and am wondering if the book later goes on to show how to develop all the steps of Anapanasati or if this book is strictly the foundation of breathing? I haven't had the opportunity yet to read past the "method".

Thanks,

Mojo

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Kamran
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Re: No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana?

Postby Kamran » Tue May 07, 2013 2:05 pm

Thanissaro is an excellent choice in my opinion due to the daily talks he provides that address problems you encounter in real-life meditation practice. Instructions only go so far; you have to figure things out yourself by practicing.

You may want to explore his collection of talks that accompany his "With Each and Every Breath" manual.

http://www.dhammatalks.org/mp3_collecti ... verybreath
"Silence gives answers"

Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Rumi

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Mojo
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Re: No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana?

Postby Mojo » Tue May 07, 2013 2:16 pm


frank k
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Re: No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana?

Postby frank k » Tue May 07, 2013 5:15 pm

Ajahn Thanissaro's new book on meditation is excellent.
In the Chinese Agama parallel to anapana 16 steps, they are much more explicit in step 3 of anapanassati, "sabba kaaya patisamvedi", "experiencing the whole [anatomical] body". I found that sutra passage very helpful to my practice in developing piti and sukha.

The following is where the third step of the 16 steps of breathing meditation is explained in the sutra itself:

T15n0614_p0275b25(08)║念諸息遍身。亦念息出入。
T15n0614_p0275b26(05)║悉觀身中諸出息入息。
T15n0614_p0275b27(14)║覺知遍至身中乃至足指遍諸毛孔如水入沙。
T15n0614_p0275b28(13)║息出覺知從足至髮遍諸毛孔亦如水入沙。譬如[夢-夕+棐]囊入出皆滿。
T15n0614_p0275b29(05)║口鼻風入出亦爾。觀身周遍見風行處。
T15n0614_p0275c01(07)║如藕根孔亦如魚網。復心非獨口鼻觀息入出。
T15n0614_p0275c02(06)║一切毛孔及九孔中。亦見息入息出。
T15n0614_p0275c03(09)║是故知息遍諸身

“One is mindfully aware of various breaths suffusing the whole body, as one attends to the exhalation and inhalation of the breath. As one pervasively observes the various kinds of inhalation and exhalation inside the body, one becomes aware and comprehends what is happening throughout the body, up to and including one’s toes and pores—[awareness] pervades as if water seeps into sands. In the same way, with [each] out-breath, awareness and understanding pervade—from the toes to the hairs, permeating all the pores—as if water seeps into sands. Just like a sack that is completely filled from its bottom to its opening, so too should one experience the body being saturated this way with [each] in-breath coming in from mouth [and/or] nose. One should perceive that throughout the body, where ‘wind’ traverses, it is as if it traverses through the holes of a lotus root; it is as if it traverses through the eyes of a fish net.

Furthermore, one should not just perceive the breath as going in and out of one’s mouth [and/or] nose; one should also see that the breath comes in and out from all the pores and from the nine orifices of the body. For this reason, one should understand that the breath pervades throughout the body."
(translation from chinese to english by Dr. William Chu)
http://www.audtip.org Audio Sutta Recordings

Zakattack
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Re: No Piti, No Sukkha, No Vipassana?

Postby Zakattack » Tue May 07, 2013 8:33 pm



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