Ajahn Brahm for sale?

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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby SamKR » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:25 am

tiltbillings wrote:
santa100 wrote:It'd be great if more monastics could provide their take on the matter:
Why? Is what Ven B doing that grave of an action?

No. But "Ajahn Brahm for Sale" does not sound good (to my ears). Funding can be raised for the nun's monastery directly without any "sale" or bidding of a monk. Maybe I am too literalist.
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby SamKR » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:32 am

tiltbillings wrote:the selling of "Ajahn Brahm" as a way of doing things -- the "ad" -- was meant to be funny.

It's not only meant to be funny. The bidding is real, isn't it?
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:37 am

SamKR wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:the selling of "Ajahn Brahm" as a way of doing things -- the "ad" -- was meant to be funny.

It's not just meant to be funny. The bidding is real, isn't it?
And your point is?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

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People live in one another’s shelter.

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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby SamKR » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:48 am

tiltbillings wrote:
SamKR wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:the selling of "Ajahn Brahm" as a way of doing things -- the "ad" -- was meant to be funny.

It's not just meant to be funny. The bidding is real, isn't it?
And your point is?

It's just that auction of a Dhamma teacher for teaching Dhamma does not sound good, as I posted above. Why it does not sound good to me? It just does not sound good, and there's no reason except my belief that Dhamma teaching should not be dependent on finance no matter where the funding goes.
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Gena1480 » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:49 am

so i registered with dhammaloka community
there seems to be a fee for posting
but i have no idea how to pay this fee
can someone help.
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:41 am

SamKR wrote:It's just that auction of a Dhamma teacher for teaching Dhamma does not sound good, as I posted above. Why it does not sound good to me? It just does not sound good, and there's no reason except my belief that Dhamma teaching should not be dependent on finance no matter where the funding goes.
And in light of what the other Ven B said, do you think the Ven Brahm is really, truly being auctioned?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby SamKR » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:58 am

tiltbillings wrote:And in of what the other Ven B said, do you think the Ven Brahm is really, truly being auctioned?

Yes, I think Ven. Brahm is really, truly being auctioned (to be available for 7 days) according to Dhammaloka website.
Is there any reason I should understand it differently?
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:05 am

SamKR wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:And in of what the other Ven B said, do you think the Ven Brahm is really, truly being auctioned?

Yes, I think Ven. Brahm is really, truly being auctioned (to be available for 7 days) according to Dhammaloka website.
Is there any reason I should understand it differently?
And how is this different from spending time with a donor?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:16 am

tiltbillings wrote:
SamKR wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:And in of what the other Ven B said, do you think the Ven Brahm is really, truly being auctioned?

Yes, I think Ven. Brahm is really, truly being auctioned (to be available for 7 days) according to Dhammaloka website.
Is there any reason I should understand it differently?
And how is this different from spending time with a donor?


It's different because he will not even benefict directly from the donor's dana! So I fail to see the imorality here.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:27 am

Modus.Ponens wrote:
It's different because he will not even benefict directly from the donor's dana! So I fail to see the imorality here.
I agree, and as I have said, opinions are going to vary, and sadly this conversation goes around in circles.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby SamKR » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:33 am

tiltbillings wrote:
SamKR wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:And in of what the other Ven B said, do you think the Ven Brahm is really, truly being auctioned?

Yes, I think Ven. Brahm is really, truly being auctioned (to be available for 7 days) according to Dhammaloka website.
Is there any reason I should understand it differently?
And how is this different from spending time with a donor?

I feel it is very different: one is auction, not dana; the other can be dana.
I am not saying that it is immoral though, and I do not doubt about his good intentions.
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:35 am

SamKR wrote:I feel it is very different: one is auction, not dana. The other can be dana.
I am not saying that it is immoral though, and I do not doubt about his good intentions.
Of course it is dana; it is just having fun with dana.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby SamKR » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:50 am

tiltbillings wrote:having fun with dana.

Fun with Dana. Never heard or thought about it before.
Is having fun that important? I wonder what would be the fruit of this motive that is missing in Dana sutta.
Sorry if I sound too conservative, but I can't help myself but have a belief that Dhamma teaching should be with no financial strings attached.
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:00 am

SamKR wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:having fun with dana.

Fun with Dana. Never heard or thought about it before.
Is having fun that important? I wonder what would be the fruit of this motive that is missing in Dana sutta?
Sorry, if I sound too conservative, but I can't help myself but have a belief that Dhamma teaching should be with no financial strings attached.
And I'll take Ajahn Brahmali's comments at face value, I don't see any string attached. Also, there should no fun of any sort ever associated with the Dhamma? Ajahn Brahm or any other teacher should never tell funny stories when giving a Dhamma talk? And if that is the case, then we should cut out of the suttas anything that suggests any sort of humor.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby SamKR » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:21 am

tiltbillings wrote:Also, there should no fun of any sort ever associated with the Dhamma? Ajahn Brahm or any other teacher should never tell funny stories when giving a Dhamma talk? And if that is the case, then we should cut out of the suttas anything that suggests any sort of humor.

I am not saying that fun should not be associated with the Dhamma; I am not sure about the limit of fun in Dhamma (though I also often think there is no fun when the world is burning). I am just saying that it is not so important that auctions should be held for teaching Dhamma and collecting funds.
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:08 am

SamKR wrote: (though I also often think there is no fun when the world is burning).
That would be an interesting topic for another thread.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Aloka » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:40 am

tiltbillings wrote:
SamKR wrote: (though I also often think there is no fun when the world is burning).
That would be an interesting topic for another thread.


How about "Is it possible for practising Buddhists to have fun ?"

:popcorn:
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:48 am

Aloka wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
SamKR wrote: (though I also often think there is no fun when the world is burning).
That would be an interesting topic for another thread.


How about "Is it possible for practising Buddhists to have fun ?"

:popcorn:
That is a good title for a thread. Now all you have to do is figure out in which subforum to post your OP.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Aloka » Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:23 am

tiltbillings wrote: That is a good title for a thread. Now all you have to do is figure out in which subforum to post your OP.



I've put it in Open Dhamma, Tilt.

Perhaps you could move it if you think there's a better place for it. Thanks.

.
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Re: Ajahn Brahm for sale?

Postby Francis Pope » Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:28 am

James the Giant wrote:This debate reminds me of the Devadatta schism...

For me, the great value of this event is it the embodient of Buddhist history & change. Here, there is to be learned about history:

(1) An inpiring monk, presumed by many to be an arahnt, that has departed from the teachings of his teacher, also presumed to be an arahant by many. This shows how quickly different schools of Buddhism can arise & become recognised by the world. This is the first lesson to be learned, here.

(2) A group of Buddhists, this internet site, who must rely a few scholars for their trust, such as Brahm, Brahmali, Bodhi & Thanissaro. This shows how few individuals influence the dissemination & intepretative doctrine of Buddhism. This is the second lesson to be learned, here.

(3) A bhikkhuni order that is struggling to support itself. This shows how easily the bhikkhuni orders became extinct due to a lack of support from the laity. The laity want heros. They will support heroic figures. This is the third lesson to be learned, here.

(4) The resistence of Buddha to admit bhikkhuinis, who are mostly unable to live as bhikkhus, i.e., to roam around without a care. Instead, they must live in compounds and the leader monks must behave like husbands to be their breadwinner. This is the fourth lesson to be learned, here.

History can be comprehended by what is occuring in the present.

:anjali:
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