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The Householder: Anapanasati vs Insight Meditation - Dhamma Wheel

The Householder: Anapanasati vs Insight Meditation

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
User avatar
Mojo
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:23 am

The Householder: Anapanasati vs Insight Meditation

Postby Mojo » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:23 am

I'm starting to wonder if Anapanasati is truly appropriate for the householder or if something like The Mahasi Method is better. I've only ever read about jhana, but it seems to me that it would be rather time consuming. I could understand perhaps in a retreat setting, but I just don't know that a 20-60 minutes would be enough time to attain and hold Jhana for any benefit. Wouldn't something like the Mahasi Method be more appropriate for the person with little free time?

Thanks,

Mojo

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LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: The Householder: Anapanasati vs Insight Meditation

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:12 am

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: The Householder: Anapanasati vs Insight Meditation

Postby daverupa » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:44 am


User avatar
Mojo
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:23 am

Re: The Householder: Anapanasati vs Insight Meditation

Postby Mojo » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:01 am

Thank you for the clarifications. I did understand anapanasati to be an insight practice - just unsure of the time commitment required for progression. I have spent tome doing breath counting or following meditation, which I understand to be considered a concentration practice, for periods of up to 30 minutes and have never encountered any special states that would correlate to my understanding of jhana.

When I use Insight with a capital I, I am referring specifically to http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vipassana_movement. I've read that some consider it dry and others that state it's got it's own type of jhana. Either way, I was just guessing that it would take less time (not effort) to make insight gains due to not frontloading the samatha as in Anapanasati.

Again, this its all just speculation on my part. But in my possibly flawed logic, one simply couldn't expect to make any progress with only 20 min anapanasati sessions.

User avatar
Kamran
Posts: 366
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:14 am

Re: The Householder: Anapanasati vs Insight Meditation

Postby Kamran » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:33 am

The main deciding factor for me in the method I choose is the amount of resources available.

I chose Thanissaro Bikhu's method, because he gives daily talks specifically on meditation practice that address the issues you will encounter (not to mention all the translations, and study guides he puts out on http://www.accesstoinsight.com )

There's a lot of great resources, but I have yet to find anyone else putting out daily talks and to keep the practice going long term it helps to hear a motivational talk every day.

If interested, his talks are organized by theme at: http://www.dhammatalks.org/mp3_collections_index.html
Last edited by Kamran on Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Silence gives answers"

Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Rumi

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manas
Posts: 2251
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The Householder: Anapanasati vs Insight Meditation

Postby manas » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:33 am

Hi Mojo, these talks might help answer the above question also

http://www.audiodharma.org/series/16/talk/1843/

:anjali:
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

User avatar
LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: The Householder: Anapanasati vs Insight Meditation

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:35 am

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


User avatar
Mojo
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:23 am

Re: The Householder: Anapanasati vs Insight Meditation

Postby Mojo » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:25 am

Thank you. Would you recommend specific resources to learning the Mahasi method? Are there other teachers that have flushed out this specific method more than the original instructions while starting true to Mahasi?

User avatar
LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: The Householder: Anapanasati vs Insight Meditation

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:42 am

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


User avatar
Bhikkhu Pesala
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Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: The Householder: Anapanasati vs Insight Meditation

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:12 am

and see "In This Very Life" in my sig.
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

User avatar
Mojo
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:23 am

Re: The Householder: Anapanasati vs Insight Meditation

Postby Mojo » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:12 am


Samma
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:47 pm

Re: The Householder: Anapanasati vs Insight Meditation

Postby Samma » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:15 pm


User avatar
Mojo
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:23 am

Re: The Householder: Anapanasati vs Insight Meditation

Postby Mojo » Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:34 pm


User avatar
LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: The Householder: Anapanasati vs Insight Meditation

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:53 pm

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


User avatar
Mojo
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:23 am

Re: The Householder: Anapanasati vs Insight Meditation

Postby Mojo » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:13 pm


Samma
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:47 pm

Re: The Householder: Anapanasati vs Insight Meditation

Postby Samma » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:19 pm


User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: The Householder: Anapanasati vs Insight Meditation

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:35 pm


Samma
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:47 pm

Re: The Householder: Anapanasati vs Insight Meditation

Postby Samma » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:52 pm


User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: The Householder: Anapanasati vs Insight Meditation

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:15 pm

Hi Samma,

I certainly agree. The first Buddhist meditation instruction I received used this technique, and that is what I primarily practise.

However, any technique needs time to understand and get used to, and if one wants to evaluate an approach, I would recommend following the instructions from one reputable teacher (be it Mahasi, Buddhahdasa, Brahm, or whoever) for some time (months). As far as I have observed, flitting between approaches, tends to lead to confusion and dissatisfaction.

:anjali:
Mike


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