MN 39 similes

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
alan...
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:37 pm

MN 39 similes

Postby alan... » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:31 pm

here and a few other places the buddha talks about the body in reference to jhana, posted below is the one at MN 39. so what do we make of this? are we to keep the entire body in mind throughout meditation or what?

"Quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful mental qualities, he enters and remains in the first jhana: rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought and evaluation. He permeates and pervades, suffuses and fills this very body with the rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal. Just as if a skilled bathman or bathman's apprentice would pour bath powder into a brass basin and knead it together, sprinkling it again and again with water, so that his ball of bath powder — saturated, moisture-laden, permeated within and without — would nevertheless not drip; even so, the monk permeates... this very body with the rapture and pleasure born of withdrawal. There's nothing of his entire body unpervaded by rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal.

"Furthermore, with the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters and remains in the second jhana: rapture and pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from directed thought and evaluation — internal assurance. He permeates and pervades, suffuses and fills this very body with the rapture and pleasure born of composure. Just like a lake with spring-water welling up from within, having no inflow from the east, west, north, or south, and with the skies supplying abundant showers time and again, so that the cool fount of water welling up from within the lake would permeate and pervade, suffuse and fill it with cool waters, there being no part of the lake unpervaded by the cool waters; even so, the monk permeates... this very body with the rapture and pleasure born of composure. There's nothing of his entire body unpervaded by rapture and pleasure born of composure.

"And furthermore, with the fading of rapture, he remains equanimous, mindful, & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' He permeates and pervades, suffuses and fills this very body with the pleasure divested of rapture. Just as in a lotus pond, some of the lotuses, born and growing in the water, stay immersed in the water and flourish without standing up out of the water, so that they are permeated and pervaded, suffused and filled with cool water from their roots to their tips, and nothing of those lotuses would be unpervaded with cool water; even so, the monk permeates... this very body with the pleasure divested of rapture. There's nothing of his entire body unpervaded with pleasure divested of rapture.

"And furthermore, with the abandoning of pleasure and stress — as with the earlier disappearance of elation and distress — he enters and remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity and mindfulness, neither-pleasure nor stress. He sits, permeating the body with a pure, bright awareness. Just as if a man were sitting covered from head to foot with a white cloth so that there would be no part of his body to which the white cloth did not extend; even so, the monk sits, permeating the body with a pure, bright awareness. There's nothing of his entire body unpervaded by pure, bright awareness."

"Maha-Assapura Sutta: The Greater Discourse at Assapura" (MN 39), translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Access to Insight, 29 August 2012, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html . Retrieved on 4 March 2013.

User avatar
LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: MN 39 similes

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:30 pm

The best simile I've heard is of a candle, which burns in one spot but casts light on everything around it; in the same way, we should direct our samadhi at one thing (our breath) while the "light" of our concentration touches everything.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


alan...
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:37 pm

Re: MN 39 similes

Postby alan... » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:56 pm


User avatar
polarbear101
Posts: 964
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:39 am
Location: California

Re: MN 39 similes

Postby polarbear101 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:49 pm

Instead of one-pointedness of mind think of unification of mind. When you center and calm the mind then it can be aware of the whole body without being diffuse or scattered.
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

lojong1
Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:59 am

Re: MN 39 similes

Postby lojong1 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:49 pm

I'm not sure this 'single point' idea is helpful.

alan...
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:37 pm

Re: MN 39 similes

Postby alan... » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:49 pm


lojong1
Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:59 am

Re: MN 39 similes

Postby lojong1 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:24 am

It's all yours, friend. Staying power is highly relevant, size doesn't matter.

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: MN 39 similes

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:33 am


lojong1
Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:59 am

Re: MN 39 similes

Postby lojong1 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:40 am

lojong1 wrote: "I'm not sure this 'single point' idea is helpful."
[for entering first jhana.] -- sorry i left that out.
And behold, it's not a 1st jhana factor in this sutta anyway! What would yous do without me!

alan...
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:37 pm

Re: MN 39 similes

Postby alan... » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:59 am


alan...
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:37 pm

Re: MN 39 similes

Postby alan... » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:02 am


alan...
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:37 pm

Re: MN 39 similes

Postby alan... » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:04 am


Sylvester
Posts: 2205
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:57 am

Re: MN 39 similes

Postby Sylvester » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:04 am


User avatar
Dmytro
Posts: 1449
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Contact:

Re: MN 39 similes

Postby Dmytro » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:50 am



User avatar
polarbear101
Posts: 964
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:39 am
Location: California

Re: MN 39 similes

Postby polarbear101 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:04 am

"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

User avatar
manas
Posts: 2251
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: MN 39 similes

Postby manas » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:18 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

Sylvester
Posts: 2205
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:57 am

Re: MN 39 similes

Postby Sylvester » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:44 am


Nyana
Posts: 2233
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:56 am

Re: MN 39 similes

Postby Nyana » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:58 am


User avatar
polarbear101
Posts: 964
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:39 am
Location: California

Re: MN 39 similes

Postby polarbear101 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:26 pm

Hi Sylvester,

That sutta (AN 9.37) doesn't even mention jhana, it's talking about the formless attainments (or at least that's how it read for me, if you care to argue otherwise I'd be interested to hear it). Also, what do you make of the kayagatasati sutta which is explicitly about mindfulness of the physical body and talks about the 4 jhanas in connection with that?
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

Samma
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:47 pm

Re: MN 39 similes

Postby Samma » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:35 pm



Return to “Samatha Bhāvana”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine