Hello,
I'm interested in investigating the teachings of some western teachers in the Thai Forest Tradition that didn't train under Ajahn Chah or belong to his monasteries. Not that I have anything against these particular teachers, quite the opposite, it's just that I'm interested in the various modern perspectives. I know Thanissaro Bhikkhu is a given, but do you fine people have any other interesting suggestions?
Be well.
Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition
Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition
I like this very much: http://www.forestdhamma.org/audio/panya-audio/, collected talks by Ajahn Paññavaddho (disciple of Ajahn Maha Bua)
The audio quality is not very good, from back in the old days when they used tapes. But there are pdf transcriptions.
The audio quality is not very good, from back in the old days when they used tapes. But there are pdf transcriptions.
Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition
Ah yes, I remember reading those A while back and remember them to be very good. Thanks!
- Dhammanando
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Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition
I don’t think there’s very much to investigate here. Outside of those in the Ajahn Chah circuit very few western monks in the TFT have set themselves up as teachers.I'm interested in investigating the teachings of some western teachers in the Thai Forest Tradition that didn't train under Ajahn Chah or belong to his monasteries.
The Ajahn Thet disciples of the 70's and 80's have all disrobed except Ajahn Munindo, who switched to Ajahn Chah, and Ajahn Dhammachando (Tan Chad), who lives as a hermit in Tak Province and doesn’t teach.
The Buddhadāsa disciples have all disrobed, with the exception of the veteran German monk Tan Khemadassī (who was only rather loosely associated with Ajahn Buddhadāsa). He lives as a hermit on an island in Trat Province and doesn’t teach. Of those who’ve disrobed I think only the ex-Santikaro Bhikkhu now teaches.
As for Ajahn Mahā Boowa’s disciples, I’m not up-to-date with the recent generation, but of the four I used to know back in the 80's, Ajahn Paññavaḍḍho is deceased, Tan John Vuḍḍhiko disrobed, and I haven’t heard anything about Sīlaratano or Abhijāto taking up teaching. Paññavaḍḍho gave a few interviews and Q & A sessions in the last years of his life, but their contents were scarcely more than a reiteration of Mahā Boowa’s teaching.
Then there are some western Dhammayutt monks who trained in the TFT but with less well-known ajahns. Here too I’m not up to date, but I think most whom I used to know have disrobed except the New Zealander Tan Guttasīla and the Aussie Bill Platypus (I forget his Pali name). I've no idea what's become of those two.
If you're interested in TFT-like stuff that's independent of Ajahn Chah, it might be more fruitful to look at those teachers who were formerly in the Ajahn Chah camp but then moved onto other pastures, or who are technically still in the camp but whose dhammic centre of gravity appears to lie elsewhere than in Ajahn Chah's teachings.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition
Thanks Bhante, very interesting information.I don’t think there’s very much to investigate here.
By the way, in Suan Mokh there is Ven. Dhammavidhu (western monk; I guess, he has more than 10 vassas, though I don't know details), teaching at 10-days anapanasati retreats (Buddhadasa method).
You imply Ajahn Brahm perhaps. But who esle "were formerly in the Ajahn Chah camp but then moved onto other pastures" ?If you're interested in TFT-like stuff that's independent of Ajahn Chah, it might be more fruitful to look at those teachers who were formerly in the Ajahn Chah camp but then moved onto other pastures, or who are technically still in the camp but whose dhammic centre of gravity appears to lie elsewhere than in Ajahn Chah's teachings.
Last edited by Zom on Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Cittasanto
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- Contact:
Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition
There is Ajahn Sukhacitto, who resides at Amaravati, and although there isn't a disciple of Ajahn Chah, and although coming from Ajahn Buddhadāsa has his own distinct style. the few teaching he gave while I was there were really good, but I do not know if they are available on the Amaravati site as there has been changes since my time.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition
Thanks Bhante (and others)! That's very interesting.
Any thoughts on why there are so few western disciples setting themselves up as teachers, or why so many have disrobed for that matter?
I have heard news of a new Dhammayut Monastery presently being built in rural Virginia, USA, isn't Ajahn Dick Silaratano the abbot there?
Any thoughts on why there are so few western disciples setting themselves up as teachers, or why so many have disrobed for that matter?
I have heard news of a new Dhammayut Monastery presently being built in rural Virginia, USA, isn't Ajahn Dick Silaratano the abbot there?
Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition
I think in most cases the reasons are:Any thoughts on why there are so few western disciples setting themselves up as teachers, or why so many have disrobed for that matter?
a) lack of Buddhist faith
b) lack of a solid foundation for being a monastic (not everyone is ready to be a monk, even if he thinks otherwise)
- Cittasanto
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- Location: Ellan Vannin
- Contact:
Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition
two westerners who I know who were monks both have strong faith but left for different reasons. there isn't one reason why everyone disrobes.richard_rca wrote:Thanks Bhante (and others)! That's very interesting.
Any thoughts on why there are so few western disciples setting themselves up as teachers, or why so many have disrobed for that matter?
I have heard news of a new Dhammayut Monastery presently being built in rural Virginia, USA, isn't Ajahn Dick Silaratano the abbot there?
Last edited by Cittasanto on Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
- Monkey Mind
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Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition
http://dhammasala.org/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.
Sutta Nipāta 3.710
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.
Sutta Nipāta 3.710
- Monkey Mind
- Posts: 538
- Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:56 pm
- Location: Pacific Northwest, USA
Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition
http://birken.ca/about/monastics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ajahn Sona trained under Gunaratana's tradition in addition to Chah lineage.
Ajahn Sona trained under Gunaratana's tradition in addition to Chah lineage.
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.
Sutta Nipāta 3.710
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.
Sutta Nipāta 3.710
- LonesomeYogurt
- Posts: 900
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- Location: America
Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition
I believe a lot of it has to do with the fact that the Thai Forest tradition tends to coalesce around specific teachers like Ajahn Chah, Buddhadasa, etc. I can imagine it is a very hard transition to make once a beloved teacher dies, and in many cases it may be enough to lead even a strong bhikkhu towards disrobing.richard_rca wrote:Thanks Bhante (and others)! That's very interesting.
Any thoughts on why there are so few western disciples setting themselves up as teachers, or why so many have disrobed for that matter?
I have heard news of a new Dhammayut Monastery presently being built in rural Virginia, USA, isn't Ajahn Dick Silaratano the abbot there?
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.
Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.
His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta
Stuff I write about things.
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.
Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.
His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta
Stuff I write about things.
Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition
As I see it, it this case he can't be considered "a strong bhikkhu", but, rather, "weak" onea beloved teacher dies, and in many cases it may be enough to lead even a strong bhikkhu towards disrobing.
Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition
Dhammanando wrote:As for Ajahn Mahā Boowa’s disciples, I’m not up-to-date with the recent generation, but of the four I used to know back in the 80's, Ajahn Paññavaḍḍho is deceased, Tan John Vuḍḍhiko disrobed, and I haven’t heard anything about Sīlaratano or Abhijāto taking up teaching.
Yes, as far as I know Ajahn Dick Silaratano is the abbot there. I think this is the contact address: http://www.forestdhamma.org/contact/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;richard_rca wrote: I have heard news of a new Dhammayut Monastery presently being built in rural Virginia, USA, isn't Ajahn Dick Silaratano the abbot there?
See also here and here for some pictures of three months ago.
Hope they are doing well there.
Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition
Dear Richard...
Forest Dhamma Monastery near Lexington, Virginia is presently a work in progress. We spent much of last year laying to infrastructure and constructing our first buildings. Right now I am in Thailand but I'll be returning to Virginia shortly before the middle of March to begin the 2nd phase of construction.
You are more than welcome to come to pay us a visit. We do have some interesting work projects scheduled for this spring and summer and we can always use a hand. The accomodations are a bit rustic but we'll be able to keep you fed and put a roof over your head.
The address is:
255 Snakefoot Lane
Lexington, VA 24450
540-336-7292
Our website is: http://www.forestdhamma.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A GPS should take you there. Otherwise give us a call for directions.
Metta,
Ajaan Dick