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Ghosts, devas, and brahmās? - Dhamma Wheel

Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
past is dead
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Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Postby past is dead » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:51 pm

Hello all

How many of you guys believe in ghosts, devas, and brahmas?

Do you think it's a must to believe in these supernatural deities in order to be a practitioner of Buddhism?

Can it hinders the progress in meditation?

SamKR
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Postby SamKR » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:08 am


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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:59 am

I think many of the attitudes that lead people to immediately disregard these things can also lead to serious problems in meditation, but a wise and healthy agnosticism should pose no problems.

Coyote
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Postby Coyote » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:19 am

I don't think it is belief in these "beings" that is the main point of the teaching - that we can remain agnostic about. Rather it is an understanding of the moral cause-and-effect between past, present and future states, which would include rewarding or "heavenly" states, and deprived or "hellish" states, that is vital and would be a hindrance if rejected.

"And how is right view the forerunner? One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view. And what is wrong view? 'There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed. There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions. There is no this world, no next world, no mother, no father, no spontaneously reborn beings; no brahmans or contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is wrong view..."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... index.html

That said, I do believe, because I don't really see any difference between aforementioned states and the beings inhabiting them.
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
Iti 26

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Bonsai Doug
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Postby Bonsai Doug » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:17 pm

I recall reading that in the suttas are references to thirty-one planes/realms of existence into which beings can be reborn. I wonder if these ghosts might be those in the Hungry Shades/Ghosts realm (peta loka)? I seem to recall that this realm is in close connection to the manussa loka, where we are now living.

Just a thought.....
Now having obtained a precious human body,
I do not have the luxury of remaining on a distracted path.

~ Tibetan Book of the Dead

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drifting cloud
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Postby drifting cloud » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:33 am


whynotme
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Postby whynotme » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:23 pm

Please stop following me

past is dead
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Postby past is dead » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:33 pm


SarathW
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Postby SarathW » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:05 pm

I believe that there is some form of fine material existence.
I have seem smoke like thing past me three times. I have spoken to three people who have seen them.
My problem is why I can’t see them all the time.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

mogg
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Postby mogg » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:45 pm

Yes I believe in devas and Brahmas. I have had no personal experience with either (that I am aware of) but know some people who have.

I know ghosts are real after having a ghost experience in Ireland a few years back at my sister's wedding. After many decades of disbelieving ghosts and ridiculing those that did (my pre-Buddhist days), it only took one encounter to undergo a complete paradigm shift. Now I'm open to anything.

I don't think belief in any of these is necessary at the beginning of the spiritual journey, but in time they will become part of one's worldview.

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Lazy_eye
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Postby Lazy_eye » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:14 pm


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Alex123
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Postby Alex123 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:29 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Prasadachitta
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Postby Prasadachitta » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:30 pm

Last edited by Prasadachitta on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

mogg
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Postby mogg » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:56 pm


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Lazy_eye
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Postby Lazy_eye » Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:47 pm


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Spiny Norman
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Postby Spiny Norman » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:44 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Mojo
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Postby Mojo » Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:41 pm

I've met people of all different temperments.

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Mindstar
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Postby Mindstar » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:15 am


Higher than lordship over all earth,
Higher than sojourning in heavens supreme,
Higher than empire over all the worlds,
Is Fruit of Entrance to the Dhamma Stream.
—Dhammapada

mogg
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Postby mogg » Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:02 am


Digity
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Re: Ghosts, devas, and brahmās?

Postby Digity » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:00 am

I give little thought to ghosts, devas and brahmas. My focus is more on what's in front of me.


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