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Awareness independent of the 6 senses? (Thanissaro) - Dhamma Wheel

Awareness independent of the 6 senses? (Thanissaro)

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Benjamin
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Awareness independent of the 6 senses? (Thanissaro)

Postby Benjamin » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:31 am

Last edited by Benjamin on Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Don't believe everything you read."
-The Buddha

pegembara
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Re: Awareness independent of the 6 senses?

Postby pegembara » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:46 am

First of all, extinguishment (nibbāna) is clearly not annihilation. The reason for this is simply that there is nothing to be annihilated. Only existing entities can be annihilated, and since Buddhism rejects the idea of a self, annihilation is by definition impossible. Processes, on the other hand, may come to an end. Since humans are processes, they can cease. What is it that ceases? Just suffering.

http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/show ... 9-38-DN-11



Now viññāṇaṃ anidassanaṃ is a reference to the nature of the released consciousness of an arahant. It does not reflect anything.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12147#p184136
Last edited by pegembara on Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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Re: Awareness independent of the 6 senses?

Postby santa100 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:59 am


pegembara
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Re: Awareness independent of the 6 senses?

Postby pegembara » Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:21 am

When we emphasise our personality we create problems, because the personal qualities are different for each one of us. We have our common human problems: old age, sickness and death; all men have certain things in common; all women have certain conditions in common. But then there are certain attitudes, cultural expectations and assumptions, which are conditioned into the mind, instilled into us after we are born. Through mindfulness, we are able to get beyond this conditioning of the mind to the pure consciousness that isn't conditioned, but which is like the background, the emptiness, the blank sheet on which words are written. Our perceptions arise and cease on that blank sheet, that emptiness.

The personality, the self-consciousness, the fears and the desires of the mind are what they are; we are not trying to dismiss them or add to them, or make any problems or difficulties around them. We are willing to let them be what they are. They feel this way, they have this quality; they arise and cease. In that cessation there's the realisation of the peace, the bliss or the serenity of being, and there's no self in it. Everyone has that potential, that ability to realise this. We describe it as seeing the Dhamma, the way it is - it's not a matter of becoming anything at all.

Ajahn Sumedho.



Consciousness, thus unestablished, not proliferating, not performing any function, is released. Owing to its release, it stands still. Owing to its stillness, it is contented. Owing to its contentment, it is not agitated. Not agitated, he (the monk) is totally unbound right within. He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'

"For one knowing in this way, seeing in this way, monk, there is the immediate ending of fermentations."

SN22.5

There is no consciousness independent of the 6 senses. http://www.leighb.com/mn38.htm
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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Re: Awareness independent of the 6 senses?

Postby polarbear101 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:03 am

"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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Benjamin
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Re: Awareness independent of the 6 senses? (Thanissaro)

Postby Benjamin » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:28 pm

"Don't believe everything you read."
-The Buddha

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polarbear101
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Re: Awareness independent of the 6 senses? (Thanissaro)

Postby polarbear101 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:14 pm

"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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Rob1980
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Re: Awareness independent of the 6 senses? (Thanissaro)

Postby Rob1980 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:38 pm

Awareness is something that is different from consciousness, but when the Arahat dies, awareness also ceases, as there is nothing for it to be aware of. Awareness is not something that is talked about in the suttas as I expect the Buddha was aware of the human tendency to reify. Also the Buddha stated in the suttas that it is better to err on the side of Anhilation view than eternalist view, even though they are both wrong.

Bhiikhu Bodhi seems to be in the eternalist camp, whereas most forest monks I know and met were in the extinction camp(which to me seems correct and what distinguishes Buddhism from other non-monothesitic religions)

I would also say that from what I have read and learnt, Mahayana Buddhism seems to lean heavily in the eternalist camp(when one does eventually save all living beings and attain enlightenment)

I think it doesn't really matter to much, if one practices enough Vipassana and Samatha one will begin to see truth.

Best of luck with your Dhamma practice and best wishes.
Reviews of Meditation and Yoga retreats as well as Monasteries: https://www.reviewmyretreat.com/"

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Re: Awareness independent of the 6 senses? (Thanissaro)

Postby Benjamin » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:41 pm

"Don't believe everything you read."
-The Buddha

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Re: Awareness independent of the 6 senses? (Thanissaro)

Postby rahul3bds » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:55 am


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Benjamin
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Re: Awareness independent of the 6 senses? (Thanissaro)

Postby Benjamin » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:42 pm

"Don't believe everything you read."
-The Buddha

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Jason
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Re: Awareness independent of the 6 senses? (Thanissaro)

Postby Jason » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:51 pm

"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" ().

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m0rl0ck
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Re: Awareness independent of the 6 senses? (Thanissaro)

Postby m0rl0ck » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:11 pm

“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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Benjamin
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Re: Awareness independent of the 6 senses? (Thanissaro)

Postby Benjamin » Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:05 pm

"Don't believe everything you read."
-The Buddha

SarathW
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Re: Awareness independent of the 6 senses? (Thanissaro)

Postby SarathW » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:43 pm

As a Samatha meditator the highest you can achieve is Neither perception and Nor non perception stage. At this stage you still have some very fine attachment to this world hence you are conditioned by six senses.
By attaining Arahantship you will completely destroy all attachments. However to expererience this state before Parinibbana, the Arhant have to getting to the Niroda Samapatti state at which Arhant will not have any awareness.
There is only one consciousness and depend on how it arises we will give it a name, Eye consciousness etc. For example Deva,Peta and Brahma do not have consciousness based on six senses. Bats, dogs and snakes have different type of consciuness to human.
The same way anger is based on six sense consciousness and the none anger is not based on six senses.

So I think it is possible to have some awareness independent of 6 senses.

The most important thing to remember is that there is no consciousness outside this long fathom body.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
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Re: Awareness independent of the 6 senses? (Thanissaro)

Postby SarathW » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:04 am

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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reflection
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Re: Awareness independent of the 6 senses? (Thanissaro)

Postby reflection » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:15 pm

If you love to read and think and ponder, here's more for you:


http://sujato.wordpress.com/2011/05/13/ ... E2%80%99t/
and
http://sujato.wordpress.com/2011/05/18/ ... E1%B9%87a/

For me the answer is clear without reading this. If I have no consciousness in a black out or sleep, why would there be any in nibbana? Consciousness of all sorts is maybe the most impermanent thing of all.

Metta to ya!

SarathW
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Re: Awareness independent of the 6 senses? (Thanissaro)

Postby SarathW » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:36 pm

Hi reflection
The way I understand is that you have consciousness (Bhava) even if you are in a coma, sleep or blackout.
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Benjamin
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Re: Awareness independent of the 6 senses? (Thanissaro)

Postby Benjamin » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:00 am

Interesting, thank you all for your posts and your time. To me, it seems that Nibbana is more about ending a process than achieving something. It's about stopping the wheel of becoming and clinging, not attaining some heavenly or blissful state. While it may be (Dhp 203), it appears to be more of a "side effect" of not-clinging, then something that can be forcefully attained.

Thank you all for continuing to provide insight into the Dhamma. :anjali:


Benjamin
"Don't believe everything you read."
-The Buddha

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reflection
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Re: Awareness independent of the 6 senses? (Thanissaro)

Postby reflection » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:13 pm



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