Samadhi (best English translation?)

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries
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Kumara
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Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)

Post by Kumara »

Bakmoon wrote:I think a really good translation in both connotation and denotation is the word "collectedness." I like this translation in particular because it it expresses the meaning of the term in a way that doesn't imply force or the constriction of awareness to a single point (although it still leaves that as an open posibility), and gives people a better sense of what meditation is.
Collectedness is a very suitable word. It feels so, so right. It's the word of my choice for samādhi before I considered composure. With this two to choose from, I experimented with the various grammatical forms and usage to see how they compare. When I came to "cittaṁ samādaha", I realise that it can evoke a funny image. "Let us all collect ours minds. Now, if I can just remember where I put mine..."

Don't get me wrong, Bakmoon. Collectedness is still an excellent choice. For the purpose of translation though, I find that composure is more suitable.

Update on my writing on samādhi: I've just finished my second draft. Now it's with my teacher, Āyasmā Aggacitta for reviewing.
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Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)

Post by Buckwheat »

I'm starting to come around to really liking "absorption". I'm starting to see focus as implying the watcher and the watched, whereas when one is really focused on the breath, there's not so much the self focusing on the breath as much as the mind absorbed by the breath and vice versa. Collectedness seems to convey a similar meaning, but I just don't like the word linguistically. And I want to save composure as a replacement for equanimity. Just my opinions.
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
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Kumara
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Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)

Post by Kumara »

Buckwheat wrote:I'm starting to come around to really liking "absorption". I'm starting to see focus as implying the watcher and the watched, whereas when one is really focused on the breath, there's not so much the self focusing on the breath as much as the mind absorbed by the breath and vice versa. Collectedness seems to convey a similar meaning, but I just don't like the word linguistically. And I want to save composure as a replacement for equanimity. Just my opinions.
"Absorption" does describe the Visuddhimagga type of jhana very well, but for the Sutta type, it's completely off.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)

Post by tiltbillings »

Kumara wrote:
Buckwheat wrote:I'm starting to come around to really liking "absorption". I'm starting to see focus as implying the watcher and the watched, whereas when one is really focused on the breath, there's not so much the self focusing on the breath as much as the mind absorbed by the breath and vice versa. Collectedness seems to convey a similar meaning, but I just don't like the word linguistically. And I want to save composure as a replacement for equanimity. Just my opinions.
"Absorption" does describe the Visuddhimagga type of jhana very well, but for the Sutta type, it's completely off.
"Completely off" is, of course, reasonably debatable, but then it depends upon what is meant by absorption and also if there are instances in the suttas that look like absorption practice where the meditator is unaware of his surroundings, as in not hearing a storm or feeling a whack to the head.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
John1122
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Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)

Post by John1122 »

I've heard it translated as discipline among many other things.
daverupa
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Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)

Post by daverupa »

I have come to prefer "composure" for samadhi, given the word root correspondence.

"Concentration" reminds me of popping blood vessels in the head, squinting the eyes shut, and straining. "Composure", on the other hand, offers me connotations of a centralized, calm, and imperturbable serenity, which to me seems to align much more closely with the methods of practice and their results.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
SamKR
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Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)

Post by SamKR »

daverupa wrote:I have come to prefer "composure" for samadhi, given the word root correspondence.

"Concentration" reminds me of popping blood vessels in the head, squinting the eyes shut, and straining. "Composure", on the other hand, offers me connotations of a centralized, calm, and imperturbable serenity, which to me seems to align much more closely with the methods of practice and their results.
I fully agree. I always disliked "right concentration".
"Right composure" might be a better translation of "samma samadhi".
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Kumara
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Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)

Post by Kumara »

tiltbillings wrote:
Kumara wrote:"Absorption" does describe the Visuddhimagga type of jhana very well, but for the Sutta type, it's completely off.
"Completely off" is, of course, reasonably debatable, but then it depends upon what is meant by absorption and also if there are instances in the suttas that look like absorption practice where the meditator is unaware of his surroundings, as in not hearing a storm or feeling a whack to the head.
Yes, there are such descriptions, but have you seen them in reference to the word jhana?
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tiltbillings
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Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)

Post by tiltbillings »

Kumara wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Kumara wrote:"Absorption" does describe the Visuddhimagga type of jhana very well, but for the Sutta type, it's completely off.
"Completely off" is, of course, reasonably debatable, but then it depends upon what is meant by absorption and also if there are instances in the suttas that look like absorption practice where the meditator is unaware of his surroundings, as in not hearing a storm or feeling a whack to the head.
Yes, there are such descriptions, but have you seen them in reference to the word jhana?
No, but I would have to look at those accountings again, and I, for the life of me, cannot recall where they are. But if they were not jhana, what would they be? You have had some very interesting things to say here, so what do you think?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Spiny Norman
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Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)

Post by Spiny Norman »

I came across "singleness of mind" recently - does that get near it?
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daverupa
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Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)

Post by daverupa »

porpoise wrote:I came across "singleness of mind" recently - does that get near it?
That's cittassa ekaggatā; here is a short discussion of its relationship to samadhi.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Assaji
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Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)

Post by Assaji »

Kumara wrote:Samādhi is the noun for the verb samādhiyati.
Samādhiyati is the passive form for the active verb samādahati.
Samādahati: sam “together” + ādahati “put, place”. So, it means “put together” or “place together”.
Thank you, Bhante, for exceptionally lucid explanation :anjali:
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Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)

Post by Sekha »

I believe one wants to get an English translation of the word in order to get a better grasp of the word's meaning.

The best grasp though -and the only true one - that one can ever have of its meaning is through direct experience. Seen from that point of view, the standard definition given by the Buddha is all we need to know. The rest is a matter of self-discipline. Go meditate!
:anjali:
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

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rahul3bds
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Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)

Post by rahul3bds »

Samadhi (best English translation?)
occurrence of the word "Samadhi" in some popular religious scriptures written in sanskrit (Bhagavad Gita, Bhagavata Purana also known as Śrīmad Bhāgavatam).

http://vedabase.net/s/samadhi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Assaji
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Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)

Post by Assaji »

From Monier-Williams dictionary:

samādhi
sam-ādhi m.
- putting together , joining or combining with (instr.) La1t2y.
- a joint or a partic. position of the neck Kir.
- union , a whole , aggregate , set R. Hariv. Ragh.
- completion , accomplishment , conclusion Kum.
- setting to rights , adjustment , settlement MBh.
- justification of a statement , proof Sarvad.
- bringing into harmony , agreement , assent W. RPra1t.
- intense application or fixing the mind on , intentness , attention (°dhiṃ- √kṛ , " to attend ") MBh. R. &c

http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/monier/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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