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The causes for wisdom - Page 8 - Dhamma Wheel

The causes for wisdom

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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robertk
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby robertk » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:04 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

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danieLion
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby danieLion » Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:16 am

Still enjoying this thread. It's very educational. Thanks again to you both.:popcorn:

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Spiny Norman
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby Spiny Norman » Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:32 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

danieLion
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby danieLion » Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:12 am


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robertk
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Re: The causes for wisdom

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Mr Man
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby Mr Man » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:05 pm

What we would call formal practice can also have value in it's own right. I would certainly agree that what is being put forward as "vipasana" is really just an exercise in concentration and that there has now been incredible investment in this idea, and in this path, and it has now become an industry and an occupation, an identity, but that does not, in my opinion, remove the value of formal practice completely. The benifit of formal practice is here and now. To live without silabataparamasa is actually not an option.

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Dan74
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby Dan74 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:22 pm

_/|\_

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robertk
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby robertk » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:33 pm

hi Daniel
any kusala citta can never come with unpleasant feeling. Often it comes with pleasant feeling(or at worst neutral).
So any wise reflection related to anatta will at those very moments be relaxing and , I dare say, confidence building. If it is not then somewhere along the way something has got twisted and it is not a genuine wise reflection.
Secondly contemplation of anatta (speaking here about basic intellectual level ) goes together with understanding the momentariness of life: we die every second. So this is also a way of Dhammanusati, a type of samatha that is very freeing and leads to fearlessness. There is nothing in life than can really panic one anymore, after all we have died so many times already.
so in that sense I think Gil's comments about having a strong confident self are redundant.
The confidence and joy are a part and parcel of developing the perception of anatta. Even the beginning is good...

Nevertheless I know it is very hard and takes a long time for most people to get their heads around anatta. So any help, such as Gil is giving, is valuable I think.

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Spiny Norman
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby Spiny Norman » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:41 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby Spiny Norman » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:44 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby Spiny Norman » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:50 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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kirk5a
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby kirk5a » Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:36 pm

One could grasp the teachings of anatta by the tail, as the metaphor goes, and decide they mean there is no self-doer.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby dhamma follower » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:24 pm


perkele
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby perkele » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:31 pm

So, in short:

Formal, "ritualized" meditation practice is useless.

People who, say, routinely sit 30 minutes every morning, practicing anapanasati in that posture, or whichever type of formal practice, should give that up. It just fosters clinging.

Anyone agree?

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David N. Snyder
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:03 pm

There are Dhamma-experts who praise only monks who are also Dhamma-experts but not
those who are meditators. And there are meditators who praise only those monks who are also
meditators but not those who are Dhamma-experts. Thereby neither of them will be pleased, and
they will not be practicing for the welfare and happiness of the multitude, for the good of the
multitude, for the welfare and happiness of devas and humans.

Anguttara Nikaya 4.46
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Mr Man
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby Mr Man » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:20 pm


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Mr Man
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby Mr Man » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:24 pm


Coyote
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby Coyote » Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:21 pm

Robertk ect.,

Do you think it would be silabbata paramasa for a Bhikkhu to devote time to formal meditation? How about for a lay person to meditate, but not "vipassana", say - Brahmavihara meditation or recollection of the Triple Gem? How about bowing or attending puja, chanting? Where is the line between formal and non formal practice anyway?
I ask this to get a clear understanding of your opinion.

Anyway, couldn't one argue that formal sitting practice helps build concentration thus making "mindfulness" (in conventional terms) clearer?
:anjali:
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
Iti 26

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Re: The causes for wisdom

Postby dhamma follower » Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:14 pm



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