"the nonconfusion and nondisappearance of the Good Teaching"
Re: "the nonconfusion and nondisappearance of the Good Teaching"
What do the behaviors of "setting down words" and "interpreting meanings" look like to the average observer? Please include in your description what they look like when done "badly" and and what they look like when done "well." In other words, four behavioral descriptions.
Re: "the nonconfusion and nondisappearance of the Good Teaching"
you are absolutely correct. the same is true of many words. there are countless words that could be used for multiple things but usually are not as it creates confusion. if i wrote "ajahn vijju teaches near me." everyone would assume he is a buddhist teacher, but since the word literally means "teacher" i could just be talking about a college teacher of history or something so i wouldn't use "ajahn" in that way unless talking about a buddhist teacher to avoid confusion. as it is i have had "satipatthana" by analayo on my bookshelf right at my elbow every time you mentioned him but i was convinced you were talking about someone else lol!danieLion wrote:yesalan... wrote:when you say "reverend analayo" are you talking about the guy who wrote "satipatthana: the direct path to realization"?You and Kim O'Hara. It has nothing to do with the clergy or Christians.alan... wrote:if so, why not "bhikkhu analayo"? is he also a christian monastic of some kind? not that that word is reserved for them but that's the most common usage. if it just said "reverend johnson" or something i wouldn't even think for a second you were talking about anyone but a christian monastic, keeping his ordained name in the mix makes me think of a buddhist/christian of some kind. not that it matters, i'm just confused.rev·er·end
adjective \ˈrev-rənd, ˈre-və-; ˈre-vərnd\
Definition of REVEREND
1: worthy of reverence : revered
see also: The use of "Bhante"
the same goes for different traditions, it would be confusing to say "ajahn sheng yen", it's appropriate, he is a teacher of buddhism but this would make people think he is in the thai tradition when he is chinese chan (or taiwanese). yes the word fits but makes it confusing. i realize these words are of different languages but on this forum it's an appropriate example as people on here use these titles before teachers names to differentiate between traditions, and of course to show respect, so for many on here they are known words that are not used interchangeably. so it's a contrast similar to "reverend" and "bhikkhu".
certainly "reverend" is appropriate for analayo if you want to be literal about it. out of curiosity, does he refer to himself in that way or does he call himself "bhikkhu" or "venerable" or another word like that? what about official documents at the monastery where he is ordained, and his publications?
Re: "the nonconfusion and nondisappearance of the Good Teaching"
What's the opposite of "literal"?alan... wrote:certainly "reverend" is appropriate for analayo if you want to be literal about it.
I neither know (I recall Bikkhu and maybe Ven.) nor care. I trust that if I ever have the chance to communicate with him and refer to him as Reverend he won't care either. And if for some strange reason contrary to what I know about him he's uptight or a jerk about it, and actually does care, I'll re-assess at that time.alan... wrote:out of curiosity, does he refer to himself in that way or does he call himself "bhikkhu" or "venerable" or another word like that? what about official documents at the monastery where he is ordained, and his publications?
Re: "the nonconfusion and nondisappearance of the Good Teaching"
opposite of literal would be... "ambiguous" perhaps?danieLion wrote:What's the opposite of "literal"?alan... wrote:certainly "reverend" is appropriate for analayo if you want to be literal about it.I neither know (I recall Bikkhu and maybe Ven.) nor care. I trust that if I ever have the chance to communicate with him and refer to him as Reverend he won't care either. And if for some strange reason contrary to what I know about him he's uptight or a jerk about it, and actually does care, I'll re-assess at that time.alan... wrote:out of curiosity, does he refer to himself in that way or does he call himself "bhikkhu" or "venerable" or another word like that? what about official documents at the monastery where he is ordained, and his publications?
surely he wouldn't care. however i imagine if he was walking down a crowded street and you were a block behind him and yelled "reverend" he wouldn't turn, but "bhikkhu" or "venerable" would likely catch his ear. oh well, it doesn't matter anyway. thanks for the patient responses .
Re: "the nonconfusion and nondisappearance of the Good Teaching"
...figurative.alan... wrote:opposite of literal would be...
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Re: "the nonconfusion and nondisappearance of the Good Teaching"
Are there any sutta references to what it means to set down words and phrases well?ccharles wrote:From Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation of AN 2.20:“Bhikkhus, there are these two things that lead to the decline and disappearance of the good Dhamma. What two? [59] Badly set down words and phrases and badly interpreted meaning.238 When the words and phrases are badly set down, the meaning is badly interpreted. These are the two things that lead to the decline and disappearance of the good Dhamma. “Bhikkhus, there are these two things that lead to the continuation, non-decline, and non-disappearance of the good Dhamma. What two? Well-set down words and phrases and well-interpreted meaning.239 When the words and phrases are well set down, the meaning is well interpreted. These are the two things that lead to the continuation, non-decline, and non-disappearance of the good Dhamma.”
Re: "the nonconfusion and nondisappearance of the Good Teaching"
i really am fairly confident that this sutta quote is talking about oral tradition. that's it. it's all about remembering and transmitting the texts properly verbally from person to person. what are you taking from it? why the concern?ccharles wrote:Are there any sutta references to what it means to set down words and phrases well?ccharles wrote:From Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation of AN 2.20:“Bhikkhus, there are these two things that lead to the decline and disappearance of the good Dhamma. What two? [59] Badly set down words and phrases and badly interpreted meaning.238 When the words and phrases are badly set down, the meaning is badly interpreted. These are the two things that lead to the decline and disappearance of the good Dhamma. “Bhikkhus, there are these two things that lead to the continuation, non-decline, and non-disappearance of the good Dhamma. What two? Well-set down words and phrases and well-interpreted meaning.239 When the words and phrases are well set down, the meaning is well interpreted. These are the two things that lead to the continuation, non-decline, and non-disappearance of the good Dhamma.”