anapanasati sutta both vipassana and jhana?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
Goob
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:14 pm

Re: anapanasati sutta both vipassana and jhana?

Post by Goob »

porpoise wrote:
richard_rca wrote:A common statement is that jhana is mere concentration and a tool for doing the really important stuff.
In a way, though samadhi depends on a mind that is calm, content and free from the hindrances, easier said than done.
I think you're missing my point. I'm saying that progressing through and mastering the jhanas is a work of insight/vipassana in itself because it would entail you working out how to lessen stress and suffering through understanding bodily/verbal/mental fabrication; i.e a major part of dependent co-arising.
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Assaji
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm

Re: anapanasati sutta both vipassana and jhana?

Post by Assaji »

porpoise wrote:
Dmytro wrote:Since few people survived to comprehend this rather dense text, I will put it simply - the gist is to gradually expand from rise and fall of air contact to all the contemplations described in Chachakka sutta:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So this is a conceptual process involving thinking?
It rather involves absence of thinking, since samadhi helps to focus precisely on the contemplations.
Last edited by Assaji on Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
Goob
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:14 pm

Re: anapanasati sutta both vipassana and jhana?

Post by Goob »

richard_rca wrote:
I think you're missing my point. I'm saying that progressing through and mastering the jhanas is a work of insight/vipassana in itself because it would entail you working out how to lessen stress and suffering through understanding bodily/verbal/mental fabrication; i.e a major part of dependent co-arising.
in which the validity I think is apparent from SN 111 (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) and other suttas. So maybe, just maybe, and I'm no scholar, it's time to seriously rethink how we consider jhana and insight/discernment as separate practices most of the time, and to question the seemingly established wisdom of jhana as an optional, 'path-neutral' tool for something more important when the states themselves contain the seeds for insight.
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