bardo...

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Cittasanto
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Re: bardo...

Post by Cittasanto »

Don't see that anyone has linked this thread yet so
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... ilit=bardo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
alan...
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Re: bardo...

Post by alan... »

Cittasanto wrote:Don't see that anyone has linked this thread yet so
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... ilit=bardo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
indeed. that thread along with articles and mentions in books are what this thread is a response to. i would have simply responded to that or other threads on here about it but responding to threads that are long forgotten is usually a waste of time. thanks for posting it so others can see it, good idea.
gendun
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Re: bardo...

Post by gendun »

I had no idea that the Bardo teachings were being promulgated outside of the Vajrayana..and certainly not that they are being looked for in the Pali Canon.
Obviously that puts a different spin on the issue.
Gendun P. Brownlow.
Karma Kagyu student.
alan...
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Re: bardo...

Post by alan... »

cooran wrote:Hello alan,

I think it might refer to an appropriate rebirth according to ones' kamma-vipaka. Most people are not sotapannas or above, but, for those very few who are, there is no rebirth in the lower realms.

Here is an essay by Bhikkhu Sujato. Have a look at what Bhante has to say on
Rebirth and the In-between State in Early Buddhism
http://santifm.org/santipada/2010/rebir ... -buddhism/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
okay so from that logic there are more than enough fertilized eggs. few are those who are guaranteed an upper rebirth, some suttas say that in the lower realms there are many more beings than in the upper ones. so if there are way more beings below than when one dies above there are always fertilized eggs waiting. the same for the few who go up, since there's not many there are more than enough eggs ready. if suddenly all of the lower realms were emptied then yes there would be a long waiting list to get an egg! or maybe if all the upper realms were emptied the same. without exact numbers and clear mathematical equations we cannot make any assumptions about availability of fertilized eggs and this exact information is not found in the suttas. but assuming things remain as they were in the time of the buddha, based on the metaphors he gives, there are plenty of eggs for everyone to inhabit. again, i do not doubt an in between state, i just don't get the logic of that line i quoted above in the earlier post.

perhaps there is a sutta that implies one must wait until an egg is ready? as it is it could be possible that one will not even die unless an egg is ready which would point to immediate rebirth for all. that is an extreme idea in the other direction however and is not supported directly by the suttas either. since neither are detailed it's all broad speculation.
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mikenz66
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Re: bardo...

Post by mikenz66 »

See also this thread:
Tantric Theravada

It's a longish thread, with many interesting posts pointing out the diversity of practice in SE Asia.

:anjali:
Mike
alan...
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Re: bardo...

Post by alan... »

gendun wrote:I had no idea that the Bardo teachings were being promulgated outside of the Vajrayana..and certainly not that they are being looked for in the Pali Canon.
Obviously that puts a different spin on the issue.
yes, in fact the sarvastivadins even had teachings about it and they far predate or at any rate are in part a predecessor to the vajrayana. at least as far as i know, my sarvastivadin teachings information is a little shaky. but i believe this is true and the vajrayana have suttas that are from the sarvastivadin canon.
gendun
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Re: bardo...

Post by gendun »

According to Vajrayana Bardo teachings of course this very existence is also a Bardo. One of six such.
Gendun P. Brownlow.
Karma Kagyu student.
alan...
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Re: bardo...

Post by alan... »

gendun wrote:According to Bardo teachings of course this very existence is also a Bardo. One of six such.
so are dreams. cool stuff. i researched dream yoga for a while. in fact bardo simply meaning "interval" all traditions have them. only five instead of six for the ones that do not include an in between death and rebirth bardo.
gendun
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Re: bardo...

Post by gendun »

Among current Buddhist schools the Vajrayana may be unique in actually formally practising transferring the stream of consciousness between the Bardos. Unless anyone knows differently.
In other words consciously modifying the nimittas.
Gendun P. Brownlow.
Karma Kagyu student.
Nyana
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Re: bardo...

Post by Nyana »

Although anecdotal reports of NDEs neither prove nor disprove the existence of a postmortem intermediate state (antarabhāva), they do indicate the possibility of such an event as well as the role of kamma and conditioning in the content and interpretation of such experiences. For example, see Eleven Thai Near Death Experiences.

:candle:
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