Buddhism and smoking, what's your thoughts?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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manas
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Re: Does smoking violate fifth precept?

Post by manas »

Jerrod Lopes wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:
Jerrod Lopes wrote:I can't see how it violates the fifth precept, but it does violate the first precept.
and how does it violate either?
It depends on how the precept is translated. There are those that translate as to abstain from killing a living being, and there are those that translate to abstain from harming any living being. I go by the latter as it makes a lot more sense to me regarding the aim of the precepts on the whole and the practice in general as well. If one abstains from harming living beings for purposes of practice, then doing something which is known to cause harm to living beings is a violation of that precept.
Hi Jerrod,

how far would you want to take this? Coffee is bad for your liver and kidneys. Too much sugar in high doses, over years and years, could harm your pancreas. Should we abstain from caffeine and sugar on the grounds that, one day, they *might* lead to either gallstones, kidney stones, or diabetes, and *possibly* to an early demise? Like tobacco, chocolate bars and coffee are not essential for survival...so we had better give them up too then, or we risk violating the first precept...?

:anjali:
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
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Jerrod Lopes
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Re: Does smoking violate fifth precept?

Post by Jerrod Lopes »

I like your paragraph. Having been a heavy smoker for 22 years, I can relate. I think it's a fair analogy as well. The only thing I see a need to change would the be the second to last word. Instead of "attain" I would suggest "realize" :quote: Nice writing though. Be well.
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gogota
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Re: Does smoking violate fifth precept?

Post by gogota »

SarathW wrote:Does smoking violate fifth precept?
Are monk allowed to smoke. Please refer attached article.

http://www.fsnewsletter.amaravati.org/html/38/38.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is it possible a person who attain Sotapanna will smoke?
my father in law and mother in law are heavy smoker.

My father in law got a stroke in May last year, after that , whole body cannot move. His organ damage one by one. Last November, he died of hunger because all his organ failed. He beg for mercy from God every night.

My mother in law was confirmed with lung cancer last year July. Last week, the cancer has spread to the bone and attack the nerve. The kind of suffering she get nobody can imagine. REALLY REALLY PAINFUL. Many committed suicide at this stage.

Continue to smoke if you want to know how hell looks like.

Tan
Deal with reality or reality will deal with you.
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equilibrium
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Re: Does smoking violate fifth precept?

Post by equilibrium »

SarathW
The two smokers are equal and both have the potential to attain Nirvana.
Even though the first smoker wants to stop now and change course.....this does not mean the second smoker will not do so at a later date.
Healthy life isn't Nirvana is it?
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Does smoking violate fifth precept?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

The more I learn about nicotine, the more inclined I am to say that it does violate the fifth precept. Whatever, its clearly not compatible with the path to the cessation of craving. If you are addicted to nicotine, you won't regret getting free from that craving.

We Love Cigarettes (BBC Horizon).
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Mr Man
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Is there a new "smoking" on the horizon

Post by Mr Man »

In the not too distant past smoking was not seen as a major health risk. The negative effects were downplayed and hidden. It was socially acceptable. But all this has changed. The horrendous health risks are widely known. Governments very actively discourage and it is frowned upon by society. But what will be the next "smoking".

Is there anything that is very widely accepted and common place that in the not too distant future will be seen in the same way as smoking is seen now? That the adverse effect and cost to our society will be realized?

Could it be alcohol?

Could it be.....dun,dun,duuunnn...Corn starch?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18393391" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.livestrong.com/article/27669 ... orn-syrup/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.sovcal.com/sovblog/high-fruc ... weet-deal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Could it be....?
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Cittasanto
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Re: Is there a new "smoking" on the horizon

Post by Cittasanto »

Mr Man wrote: Could it be alcohol?

Could it be.....dun,dun,duuunnn...Corn starch?
I think Alcohol could come at some point, as prohibition does go around every so often, but it has proved too popular to last long.
but I think it could be petrol and cars that run on it seeing as the bio-diesel and battery cars are coming more into fashion.
But Plutonium could makeway for thoreum at some point in the future too??

not exactly personal health but each strong contenders for the next vilification in the population.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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gogota
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Re: Does smoking violate fifth precept?

Post by gogota »

These are some of the thing that will happened to a smoker :

1) Heart attack
This is the most merciful dead, but not everyone. Some got serious brain damage and became vege all of their life

2) stroke
My father in law got it, take seven months for him to die. Very very horrible. Just can't imagine the horror of the dying process

3) Lung failure
Need oxygen therapy to survive. Just lying on the bed and breath using machine. Worse than dead

4) Lung cancer
The worst of all. When a pain reach a level no longer sustainable by a human, the doctor will give morphine or sleeping pill. Many commit suicide at late stage. Too painful.

5) Live a long life.
Very very few have this chance. All my relatives and friends who smoke are 6 feet under.

Stop smoking = stop suffering

:anjali:
Deal with reality or reality will deal with you.
shaunc
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Re: Is there a new "smoking" on the horizon

Post by shaunc »

My money would be on fast-food.
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GraemeR
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Re: Is there a new "smoking" on the horizon

Post by GraemeR »

Cittasanto wrote: I think Alcohol could come at some point, as prohibition does go around every so often, but it has proved too popular to last long.
but I think it could be petrol and cars that run on it seeing as the bio-diesel and battery cars are coming more into fashion.
But Plutonium could makeway for thoreum at some point in the future too??

not exactly personal health but each strong contenders for the next vilification in the population.
It is banned in some Islamic countries. It wasn't very effective in America in the last century.

As it has been use for so long and by such a large number of people and used traditionally at social events, they could find it hard to ban.

Of course governments make LOTS of tax revenue from it ..... would that be a bigger consideration?

With metta,

Graham
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Kim OHara
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Re: Is there a new "smoking" on the horizon

Post by Kim OHara »

shaunc wrote:My money would be on fast-food.
Or obesity per se?
It's already being demonised by the government and the health sector here in Australia, for essentially the same reasons that smoking was, i.e. individuals inflict the ill-health on themselves but then the whole community ends up paying their health costs.
'Demonised' may be a bit loaded so I should say that I am generally in favour of both policies.

:namaste:
Kim
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Cittasanto
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Re: Is there a new "smoking" on the horizon

Post by Cittasanto »

GraemeR wrote:Of course governments make LOTS of tax revenue from it ..... would that be a bigger consideration?
Governments make a lot of money from tobacco also.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Mr Man
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Re: Is there a new "smoking" on the horizon

Post by Mr Man »

Kim O'Hara wrote:
shaunc wrote:My money would be on fast-food.
Or obesity per se?
Is corn syrup the thing that is causing the obesity problem?

From the BBC article:

"Fructose is easily converted to fat in the body, and scientists have found that it also suppresses the action of a vital hormone called leptin.

"Leptin goes from your fat cells to your brain and tells your brain you've had enough, you don't need to eat that second piece of cheesecake," says Dr Robert Lustig, an endocrinologist.

He says when the liver is overloaded with sugars, leptin simply stops working, and as a result the body doesn't know when it's full.

"It makes your brain think you're starving and now what you have is a vicious cycle of consumption, disease and addiction. Which explains what has happened the world over," he says.
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James the Giant
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Re: Is there a new "smoking" on the horizon

Post by James the Giant »

Mr Man wrote:But what will be the next "smoking".

Is there anything that is very widely accepted and common place that in the not too distant future will be seen in the same way as smoking is seen now? That the adverse effect and cost to our society will be realized?
Cellphones. And the multitude of tiny transmitters found everywhere these days.
In my office building there are 11 floors. Each floor has about 100 people in it. Each of those people has a cellphone, wireless keyboard and mouse, wireless LAN for their computer, and most of them have a bluetooth headset. Oh and most cellphones have bluetooth and wifi too. That's 7700 transmission sources in just one little 11 story building, and that doesn't even include the larger receivers and transmitters on the ceilings and the proper big ones mounted on the top of the building. Seven thousand!
The evidence is scanty now, but surely that must all be having some effect. Hopefully not eh.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
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Roland
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Re: Is there a new "smoking" on the horizon

Post by Roland »

Interesting thread. I would say the next "smoking" would definitely be "hydraulic fracturing"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing

I live in a state that uses this process to extract natural gas. There is a huge list of chemicals used in the process. It also apparently causes methane seepage into ground water which will pollute tap water in households near the wells. People in the areas can literally light their tap water on fire. Also, numerous other strange health effects are caused in people who live around these wells. There is a documentary called "Gasland" that exposes these problems. As a reaction to this, a gas industry funded documentary was released called "Truthland" trying to disprove "Gasland". In response, the creator of "Gasland" released a response documentary to "Truthland" called "The Sky Is PInk", disproving further the industry's claims and denial of the harm they are apparently causing.

Ironically, the same PR firm that was hired by the tobacco industry in 1953 to tell the world that smoking is harmless and does not cause lung cancer, etc, is the exact same PR firm that a lobbying organization for the gas and oil industry hired to try to plant doubt in the minds of the public of the dangers of hydraulic fracturing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_%26_Knowlton" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, what about GMOs? There has been few human studies on the health effects of genetically modified foods, of which are said to have problems, but every study done on animals have shown multiple harmful effects. The studies that show they are safe are done by Monsanto, so they are biased (I don't trust anything that company does or says). And the only reason long term studies have not been done is because the FDA says that GM foods and non-GM foods are "substantially equivalent" which is a meaningless term, and by the way, the FDA has had many former employees Monsanto employed within the FDA.... I could go on and on...
Last edited by Roland on Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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