I'd be interested to see what you are referring to.gendun wrote:But Ajahn Chah taught Rebirth, so did Ajahn Sumedho and so does Ajahn Munindo.
So your post puzzles me.
the great rebirth debate
Re: the great rebirth debate
Re: the great rebirth debate
was referring to Alokas statement that she/he was a a believer before discovering The Forest Sangha, and that now he/she is agnostic..but the Forest Sangha Ajahns teach rebirth.
Gendun P. Brownlow.
Karma Kagyu student.
Karma Kagyu student.
Re: the great rebirth debate
Firstly my post was to Jerrod and not you, Gendun - and secondly I didn't say that I became agnostic because of the Forest Tradition, so you are jumping to huge assumptions there.gendun wrote:was referring to Alokas statement that she/he was a a believer before discovering The Forest Sangha, and that now he/she is agnostic..but the Forest Sangha Ajahns teach rebirth.
Re: the great rebirth debate
I was meaning examples of Ajahn Chah's, Ajahn Sumedho's, and Ajahn Munindo's teachings on rebirth.gendun wrote:was referring to Alokas statement that she/he was a a believer before discovering The Forest Sangha, and that now he/she is agnostic..but the Forest Sangha Ajahns teach rebirth.
Re: the great rebirth debate
How do you know ? I thought you were an Aro gTer follower.(See thread on Aro gTer at Dharma Wheel)gendun wrote:...so did Ajahn Sumedho...
Ajahn Sumedho didn't teach about rebirth at any of the teachings I attended - and in his book "The Sound of Silence" he said:
"I quite like the idea of reincarnation, and of rebirth, on a theoretical level. I've no bias against it, but it is speculative and it's conceptual."
Last edited by Aloka on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: the great rebirth debate
....and since you mentioned Ajahn Chah I'll quote Ajahn Sumedho from the bit before my previous quote:
PAGE 237
“Rebirth,” like “reincarnation,” is a term that’s used generally referring to having gone through a series of different lives, and then there are various views about whether once you get reincarnated into human form where you can go, become a frog again or something like that. I was teaching a retreat in Australia at the Theosophical Society, where people’s views were split. Some held that once you made it to the human level you can’t slide back into a lesser animal one, whereas others insisted that you could. But the truth of the matter is, nobody really knows.
When Ajahn Chah taught about rebirth, he did so in the context of paticcasumappada, or dependent origination. He was talking about the kind of rebirth you can actually witness in daily life; birth is the beginning, death is the ending. How many rebirths have you gone through today, mentally ? What is born dies; what arises, ceases. Rebirth in this sense is actually provable.
In the paticcasamuppada, through desire (tanha) comes attachment (upadana), and then attachment leads to becoming (bhava), becoming leads to rebirth, and rebirth leads to suffering. Jati (birth) is the result of grasping desire. I quite like the idea of reincarnation and rebirth, on a theoretical level. I’ve no bias against it, but it is speculative and it’s conceptual.”
Re: the great rebirth debate
I am not an ArogTer follower, and never have been.
I am not a Theravada student but I have been present when Ajahn Sumedho talked about rebirth in a literal sense. And when Ajahn Munindo talked at length about the dynamics of " again becoming ". (Punnabbhava )
I am not a Theravada student but I have been present when Ajahn Sumedho talked about rebirth in a literal sense. And when Ajahn Munindo talked at length about the dynamics of " again becoming ". (Punnabbhava )
Last edited by gendun on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gendun P. Brownlow.
Karma Kagyu student.
Karma Kagyu student.
Re: the great rebirth debate
So what's your point anyway ? Deciding to adopt a "don't know " position about rebirth was my personal decision and nothing to do with any Ajahns.gendun wrote:I am not an ArogTer follower, and never have been.
I am not a Theravada student but I have been present when Ajahn Sumedho talked about rebirth in a literal sense. And when Ajahn Munindo talked at length about the dynamics of " again becoming ".
Its my bedtime now - so I'll say "goodnight."
Re: the great rebirth debate
I have never posted on Dharma Wheel..ever.Aloka wrote:How do you know ? I thought you were an Aro gTer follower.(See thread on Aro gTer at Dharma Wheel)gendun wrote:...so did Ajahn Sumedho...
Ajahn Sumedho didn't teach about rebirth at any of the teachings I attended - and in his book "The Sound of Silence" he said:
"I quite like the idea of reincarnation, and of rebirth, on a theoretical level. I've no bias against it, but it is speculative and it's conceptual."
Gendun P. Brownlow.
Karma Kagyu student.
Karma Kagyu student.
Re: the great rebirth debate
OK - well I noticed your posts in a topic on this website in support of Aro g'Ter and mentioning Malcome have been quoted there in the 'Dharma Free For All.'gendun wrote: I have never posted on Dharma Wheel..ever.
Goodnight
Re: the great rebirth debate
Goodnight.Aloka wrote:OK - well I noticed your posts in a topic on this website in support of Aro g'Ter and mentioning Malcome have been quoted there in the 'Dharma Free For All.'gendun wrote: I have never posted on Dharma Wheel..ever.
Goodnight
Gendun P. Brownlow.
Karma Kagyu student.
Karma Kagyu student.
Re: the great rebirth debate
Comforter? ... Comforter? It would be much less stressful if there was only one life and we would be ipso facto Arhants in that matter.Aloka wrote:Yes, I can understand how people need rebirth as a kind of morality system and comforter - and that's fine.
Quite the opposite. It was the FEAR of rebirth that motivated Prince Siddhartha to seek Nibbana. Most of dukkha is not a psychological "you didn't get what you craved". The problem with craving is that it leads to more rebirth which means that one has to work, age, get sick, experience excruciating pain potentially endless amount of time until Nibbana and in some lifeforms the pain is trillions times greater than in this human life.
This time we have it lucky. We weren't born as starving kid in Africa... But with rebirth there is no guarantee unless one becomes an Aryan.
Re: the great rebirth debate
Many would see the whole religious thing as a comforterAlex123 wrote:Comforter? ... Comforter? It would be much less stressful if there was only one life and we would be ipso facto Arhants in that matter.Aloka wrote:Yes, I can understand how people need rebirth as a kind of morality system and comforter - and that's fine.
See here http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 88&start=0Most of dukkha is not a psychological
Re: the great rebirth debate
Possibly so. Which begs the question what brings those people to a Buddhist website.
Gendun P. Brownlow.
Karma Kagyu student.
Karma Kagyu student.
Re: the great rebirth debate
The first noble truth here and now?gendun wrote:Possibly so. Which begs the question what brings those people to a Buddhist website.