Thai Buddhist Monks Struggle to Stay Relevant

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Jeffrey
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Thai Buddhist Monks Struggle to Stay Relevant

Post by Jeffrey »

Witness the spread of capitalism.

"...the local Buddhist monk has gone from being a moral authority, teacher and community leader fulfilling important spiritual and secular roles to someone whose job is often limited to presiding over periodic ceremonies."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/19/world ... .html?_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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gavesako
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Re: Thai Buddhist Monks Struggle to Stay Relevant

Post by gavesako »

“Consumerism is now the Thai religion,” said Phra Paisan Visalo, one of the country’s most respected monks. “In the past, people went to temple on every holy day. Now, they go to shopping malls.”

It is largely true as reported in the article. Many monasteries especially in the North of Thailand do not have a resident monk and sometimes have to invite monks just for the Rains Retreat from another province.

There are different ways that the current crisis can be solved, as proposed by Ven. Anil Sakya ("fast-food Buddhism") or Ven. Paisan Visalo ("return to nature and simplicity").
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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gavesako
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Re: Thai Buddhist Monks Struggle to Stay Relevant

Post by gavesako »

Perhaps centers like this -- an oasis of spirituality and peace in the middle of Bangkok -- are an answer to the problem:


A Taste of Buddhism

Published on December 6th, 2012 | by Bangkok 101

On the edge of Chatuchak Park sits a state-of-the-art Buddhist centre filled with religious writings, talks, meditation classes and followers. Elizabeth Preger goes in search of enlightenment.

...

The Buddhadasa Indapanno Archives (BIA)

Vachirabenjatas Park (Suan Rot Fai), Nikom Rot Fai Sai 2 Rd | BTS Mo Chit/MRT Chatuchak Park | 02-936-2800 | on the first Sunday of each month between 9:30-11:30am | http://www.bia.or.th" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.facebook.com/buddhadasaarchives" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; | 9am-6pm


http://www.bangkok101.com/2012/12/06/a- ... n-rot-fai/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

Access to Insight - Theravada texts
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts
Dhammatalks.org - Sutta translations
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tiltbillings
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Monks Lose Relevance as Thailand Grows Richer

Post by tiltbillings »

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/19/world ... .html?_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Monks Lose Relevance as Thailand Grows Richer

Post by DNS »

NY Times wrote:Scandals surrounding some monks have contributed to the decline. Social media has helped spread videos of monks partying in monasteries, imbibing alcohol, watching pornographic videos and cavorting with women and men, all forbidden activities. There have also been controversies involving allegations of embezzlement of donations at temples.
My hope would be that although the number of monks might be declining, the quality would be better. I think it would be better to have a small number of very good monks who practice, teach, have good sila, provide a good example; rather than large numbers but of poor quality.
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Ben
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Re: Monks Lose Relevance as Thailand Grows Richer

Post by Ben »

Maybe its time for a reform movement in Thailand similar to the mass meditation movement that arose out of Burma following British occupation.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

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plwk
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Re: Monks Lose Relevance as Thailand Grows Richer

Post by plwk »

See here
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tiltbillings
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Re: Monks Lose Relevance as Thailand Grows Richer

Post by tiltbillings »

plwk wrote:See here
Thanks. I thought there was something familiar about that article. I'll merge them.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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ancientbuddhism
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Re: Thai Buddhist Monks Struggle to Stay Relevant

Post by ancientbuddhism »

Like any social dynamic this one is more nuanced than simple materialism as culprit. Many younger Thais are discouraged with the superficial piety of monks who outside of ritual duties live just as they do … what to say of the saṅgha scandals that surface in the news from time to time.
I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)

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appicchato
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Re: Thai Buddhist Monks Struggle to Stay Relevant

Post by appicchato »

Many younger Thais are discouraged with the superficial piety of monks who outside of ritual duties live just as they do … what to say of the saṅgha scandals that surface in the news from time to time.
Rubbish...
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Polar Bear
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Re: Thai Buddhist Monks Struggle to Stay Relevant

Post by Polar Bear »

Welp, we all know the old saying, "nothing lasts forever." :sage:

Edit: And I agree with David. Sounds good to me.
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
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tiltbillings
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Re: Thai Buddhist Monks Struggle to Stay Relevant

Post by tiltbillings »

appicchato wrote:
Many younger Thais are discouraged with the superficial piety of monks who outside of ritual duties live just as they do … what to say of the saṅgha scandals that surface in the news from time to time.
Rubbish...
It might be rubbish, even balderdash, but I think AB's comment deserves a bit more respect and maybe a bit more of a comment than that, and I say that because you probably have better first hand insight into some of these things than most of us here, and it would be to our benifit if you would be kind enough to share your take on this, if you please.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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appicchato
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Re: Thai Buddhist Monks Struggle to Stay Relevant

Post by appicchato »

Poor choice of words, I know...came back to change it and got bit...sorry...

'Tis true, while many young Thais are discouraged, there are myriad reasons why...superficial piety of monks isn't one of them...and monks most definitely do not 'live as they do'...

And what to say of Sangha scandals that surface in the news?...A. They're (monks) human, and B. They (monks) number in the hundreds of thousands... comparatively (with other 'religions') speaking, the number, and severity of offenses, pales...
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ancientbuddhism
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Re: Thai Buddhist Monks Struggle to Stay Relevant

Post by ancientbuddhism »

appicchato wrote:
Many younger Thais are discouraged with the superficial piety of monks who outside of ritual duties live just as they do … what to say of the saṅgha scandals that surface in the news from time to time.
Rubbish...
Not sure what the context is for this reply. Although I suppose I can understand that the Thai religious, like mainstream Christians in the West, would find a more dignified fault for religious apathy to be found in 'consumerism' than in shortcomings of their religious institutions.
appicchato wrote:Tis true, while many young Thais are discouraged, there are myriad reasons why...superficial piety of monks isn't one of them...and monks most definitely do not 'live as they do'...
I can only go by the candid remarks I hear, and from what I experience. Although this is by no means equivalent to a proper study of the mater, neither was the article which I think glosses the issue.
appicchato wrote:And what to say of Sangha scandals that surface in the news?...A. They're (monks) human, and B. They (monks) number in the hundreds of thousands... comparatively (with other 'religions') speaking, the number, and severity of offenses, pales...
There are good monks. And there are problems, some significant. When these are mishandled or covered-up, an institution that once prided itself on discipline looses credibility. I have lived in wats and vihāras East & West where gross misdeeds and corruption has been covered up. I know this is my opinion, but it isn’t just my opinion.
I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)

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gavesako
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Re: Thai Buddhist Monks Struggle to Stay Relevant

Post by gavesako »

The video for the article:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67jYg-TrCik" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

Access to Insight - Theravada texts
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts
Dhammatalks.org - Sutta translations
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