vipassana craziness

Discussion of Satipatthana bhavanā and Vipassana bhavana.

Re: vipassana craziness

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:26 pm

Mr Man wrote:Tilt, Anapanna is not bringing the gross level impurities to the surface. I think that that is a misrepresentation of what is happening.
Says you, but the reality is, whether you want it to or not, that sort of stuff happens.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: vipassana craziness

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:36 pm

Mr Man wrote:Tilt, Anapanna is not bringing the gross level impurities to the surface. I think that that is a misrepresentation of what is happening.
A couple of thing. The mindfulness of breathing that the Goenka people do is not the highly structured practice of MN 118, but mindfulness of breathing can and does allow for things to pop up. It is the nature of the beast.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: vipassana craziness

Postby daverupa » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:39 pm

Maybe the problem is the metaphor: perhaps consider anapanasati to be like calming the surface of a turbulent pond, allowing one to see the bottom. Rather than saying it brings things to the surface, perhaps say that it allows things to be seen with greater clarity - impurities and purities alike. It's the same thing, but sometimes metaphors have connotations which cause confusion.

AN 1.46 wrote:"Suppose there were a pool of water — clear, limpid, and unsullied. A man with good eyesight standing there on the bank would see shells, gravel, & pebbles, and also shoals of fish swimming about and resting. Why is that? Because of the unsullied nature of the water. In the same way, that a monk with an unsullied mind would know his own benefit, the benefit of others, the benefit of both; that he would realize a superior human state, a truly noble distinction of knowledge & vision: Such a thing is possible. Why is that? Because of the unsullied nature of his mind."
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: vipassana craziness

Postby Ben » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:45 pm

daverupa wrote:Maybe the problem is the metaphor


Well said, Dave.
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725


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Re: vipassana craziness

Postby Mr Man » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:22 pm

daverupa wrote:Maybe the problem is the metaphor

Yes, in my opinion there is definitely a problem with the metaphor or if it is even meant as a metaphor.
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Re: vipassana craziness

Postby Monkey Mind » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:48 pm

Mr Man wrote:Tilt, Anapanna is not bringing the gross level impurities to the surface. I think that that is a misrepresentation of what is happening.

You seem really fixated on that quote from the OP, so I'll just offer that I don't think that statement is consistent with how Mr. Goenka teaches. I don't know if the OP is mistaken, or received a convoluted message from an assistant teacher. The "technique" is pretty straight forward, but during the retreats there is a lot of information presented in the Dhamma talks. I think it is easy for someone (myself included) to misunderstand the point of the information presented during the talks.
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710
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Re: vipassana craziness

Postby nibbuti » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:04 pm

seahorse wrote:Nibbuti, that's wise advice indeed. I have most of that in check but could certainly do with dropping the caffeine and certain foods. I will begin a conscious detox as of today, thanks.

Hi seahorse

You're welcome. Also, Venerable Dhammavuddho explains some "vipassana craziness" here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE6UOQfAafE

:)
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Re: vipassana craziness

Postby Mr Man » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:13 pm

Monkey Mind, thank you for the comment, I don't mean to be fixated but some times it is easy. If it is inconsistent with how Mr. Goenka teaches that is certainly relevant.

I have experience of the U Ba Khin tradition through doing retreats with Mother Sayama / Saya U Chit Tin but that is going back some 30 years now so possibly some of my perceptions have been weathered by time and possibly some things have changed.
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Re: vipassana craziness

Postby Ben » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:06 am

Mr Man wrote:I have experience of the U Ba Khin tradition through doing retreats with Mother Sayama / Saya U Chit Tin but that is going back some 30 years now so possibly some of my perceptions have been weathered by time and possibly some things have changed.


As a matter of interest, where was that retreat held?
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
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Re: vipassana craziness

Postby Mr Man » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:41 am

Ben wrote:
Mr Man wrote:I have experience of the U Ba Khin tradition through doing retreats with Mother Sayama / Saya U Chit Tin but that is going back some 30 years now so possibly some of my perceptions have been weathered by time and possibly some things have changed.


As a matter of interest, where was that retreat held?


They were held at Splatts House in the UK.
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