Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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tiltbillings
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by tiltbillings »

DAWN wrote:
tiltbillings wrote: No detachment without insight.
Intellectual insight or
practical experiance?

PS Intellectual experiance
Practical insight
You don't know?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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DAWN
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by DAWN »

tiltbillings wrote:You don't know?
I dont know... actualy i dont give much importance to insights wich arise. It's impermanent.

But i would chose - Practical insight - i think.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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tiltbillings
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by tiltbillings »

DAWN wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:You don't know?
I dont know... actualy i dont give much importance to insights wich arise. It's impermanent.

But i would chose - Practical insight - i think.
You might want to do some reading of the basics in Buddhism. WHAT THE BUDDHA TAUGHT by Dr Walpola Rahula might be a good place to start.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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DAWN
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by DAWN »

tiltbillings wrote:You don't know?
Actualy, i ask this question about insight, because in my perception, insight is somethink intellectual, and i'am not fan of intellectual Dhamma.
I see Buddha Dhamma like a way, practical counsils ; not like doctrine, or believing system.

What insight mean exactly?
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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tiltbillings
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by tiltbillings »

DAWN wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:You don't know?
Actualy, i ask this question about insight, because in my perception, insight is somethink intellectual, and i'am not fan of intellectual Dhamma.
I see Buddha Dhamma like a way, practical counsils ; not like doctrine, or believing system.

What insight mean exactly?
To ask this question is to point to a fairly large hole in your undrtstanding of the Buddha's teachings. Insight, in the context of the Buddha's teachings, refers to a direct seeing. It is not an intellectual process, nor is it a voice you hear after counting to 3.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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DAWN
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by DAWN »

tiltbillings wrote:
DAWN wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:You don't know?
Actualy, i ask this question about insight, because in my perception, insight is somethink intellectual, and i'am not fan of intellectual Dhamma.
I see Buddha Dhamma like a way, practical counsils ; not like doctrine, or believing system.

What insight mean exactly?
To ask this question is to point to a fairly large hole in your undrtstanding of the Buddha's teachings. Insight, in the context of the Buddha's teachings, refers to a direct seeing. It is not an intellectual process, nor is it a voice you hear after counting to 3.
I see.
It's impermanent. Actualy insight is not impermanent, because not conditioned by knowledge, because you have no doubt, but explication of this insight to others is impermanent, because conditioned. For exemple you dont understand my insight in this topic, i have no doubt about it, but impossible to explain.
I has insight of annica and anatta, see anicca with my eyes and body, anatta with my mind. But impossible to explain to others, because this knowledge take different ways in explanantion, is conditioned.

SN 24.1
"That which is seen, heard, sensed, cognized, attained, sought after, and ranged over by the mind: is permanent or impermanent?"
"Impermanent, venerable sir."

Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
Gwyddion
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by Gwyddion »

My understanding of Nirvana was that once the illusion of self and all defilements are eradicated who is left to experience a state anyway? as there needs to be a self to be in a state.
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ancientbuddhism
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by ancientbuddhism »

Gwyddion wrote:My understanding of Nirvana was that once the illusion of self and all defilements are eradicated who is left to experience a state anyway? as there needs to be a self to be in a state.
  • AN. 4.24 (excerpt)

    Iti kho, bhikkhave, tathāgato daṭṭhā daṭṭhabbaṃ, diṭṭhaṃ na maññati, adiṭṭhaṃ na maññati, daṭṭhabbaṃ na maññati, daṭṭhāraṃ na maññati; sutvā sotabbaṃ, sutaṃ na maññati, asutaṃ na maññati, sotabbaṃ na maññati, sotāraṃ na maññati; mutvā motabbaṃ, mutaṃ na maññati, amutaṃ na maññati, motabbaṃ na maññati, motāraṃ na maññati; viññatvā viññātabbaṃ, viññātaṃ na maññati, aviññātaṃ na maññati, viññātabbaṃ na maññati, viññātāraṃ na maññati.

    “Thus it is, bhikkhus, when the Tathāgata sees what is to be seen; he does not imagine the seen, does not imagine the not-seen, does not imagine what is to be seen, and does not imagine a seer. When hearing what is to be heard; does not imagine the heard, does not imagine the not-heard, does not imagine what is to be heard, and does not imagine a hearer. When thinking what is to be thought; does not imagine the thought, does not imagine the not-thought, does not imagine what is to be thought, and does not imagine a thinker. When cognizing what is to be cognized; does not imagine the cognized, does not imagine the not-cognized, does not imagine what is to be cognized, and does not imagine a cognizer.

    Iti kho, bhikkhave, tathāgato diṭṭhasutamutaviññātabbesu dhammesu tādīyeva tādī. Tamhā ca pana tādimhā añño tādī uttaritaro vā paṇītataro vā natthīti vadāmī’’ti.

    “Thus it is, bhikkhus, being just such with the nature of what is to be seen, heard, thought, and cognized; the Tathāgata is such. And I say that of this such, not another such can be brought forth that surpasses it.

    Yaṃ kiñci diṭṭhaṃva sutaṃ mutaṃ vā,
    Ajjhositaṃ saccamutaṃ paresaṃ;
    Na tesu tādī sayasaṃvutesu,
    Saccaṃ musā vāpi paraṃ daheyya.

    “Whatever is seen, heard or thought,
    Fixed upon, are thought as true by others;
    Not so for one who is such, the self-restrained,
    To accept what others view as true or false.

    Etañca sallaṃ paṭikacca disvā,
    Ajjhositā yattha pajā visattā;
    Jānāmi passāmi tatheva etaṃ,
    Ajjhositaṃ natthi tathāgatāna.

    “Having seen with caution that arrow,
    That the generations have affixed and attached;
    ‘I know, I see, thus it is so’
    There is nothing affixed of the Tathāgata.”
I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)

A Handful of Leaves
Vajracharya Zhide
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by Vajracharya Zhide »

In the Vajrayana tradition, there are two forms of Bodhicitta.
This is not an average person's type of daily consciousness (although it exists in everyone under all the layers of muck),
but ordinarily refers to those who have taken Bodhisattwa vows.
Bodhicitta #1: The wish for all sentient beings to become enlightened, and it is the Bodhisattwa's path to
to work toward that. (I know....I know.. I thought that was also an overwhelmingly impossible
dream (or nightmare) also when I learned that I had actually taken that vow and contemplated giving back my vows...lol)
Bodhicitta #2: This is similar to what is referred to in Hinduism as "Brahma", the Absolute Reality.
The Absolute Reality is an experience and cannot be defined very well in words, ie, people who have had near-death experiences
understand this realm of reality. Essentially, once all our dross is purified and all of the right circumstances
come together, our own soul is able to merge with the Absolute Reality. We become one with everything
and are aware of the past, present and future simultaneously, plus the Divine Intelligence behind all of it.
Once we return to our conscious body, after this experience, we become two people essentially: One who
lives in the 3 dimensional realm and daily life; and one who, at the same time, abides in the knowledge of the Absolute Reality.
In other words, our soul is now in union with the living energy of the Absolute Reality, while we continue to function
in our body. That awareness of the Absolute Reality is called Bodhicitta, but it is not the Absolute Reality - or Brahma - itself.

Your question is very intelligent and penetrating. I hope you find a bonafide, enlightened master to study with. Much compassion, Zhide
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tiltbillings
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by tiltbillings »

Vajracharya Zhide wrote: . . .
I guess I'd go with the Vajrayanists, such as the Dalai Lama, who sees things radically differently from what you have presented.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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