New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:50 am

Dmytro wrote:Ven. Thanissaro doesn't ever criticise other teachers personally, what he adresses is the unfortunate wording that may be confusing and misguiding.

Well, given what I saw as misleading and selective quoting of other teachers in that book, I will attempt to stick to my policy of simply ignoring his criticisms, and concentrating on the interesting parts of his writing.

:anjali:
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby Buckwheat » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:23 pm

Buckwheat wrote:Hi all,

From a vipassana perspective, when you say "bare attention", what does "bare" refer to? ie: bare of what?

Ven Thanissaro seems to imply that bare represents unconditioned, but I have a feeling this is not the intention of vipassana teachers. ...


Hi all,

I just want to refresh this question as it was a serious inquiry. I have an impression of what bare attention is bare of, but only a loose one based on some writings of Bhante G and Bhikkhu Bodhi's quote earlier in this thread. A more direct answer from a vipassana adherent would be greatly appreciated. Maybe I really need to be asking a ten-day Goenka retreat? Maybe, but that will have to wait. A text answer will have to suffice for now.

Thanks,
Scott
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby befriend » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:23 pm

how does thanissaro bikkhu think we should meditate during daily activities?
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby Dmytro » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:07 am

Hi Befriend,

befriend wrote:how does thanissaro bikkhu think we should meditate during daily activities?


See his talk "Skill of Restraint": http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... #restraint
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby befriend » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:01 pm

thank you.
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby Annino » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:01 pm

I just ended the lecture of the book.
I think that the book is very interesting, an honest contribution to the Dhamma.
The mindfulness as explained by Thanissaro is illuminating. I recommend the lecture of this book.
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby Zom » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:30 pm

Cool book, but again Ven. Thanissaro with his hidden-fire-eternal-mind idea :candle:
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby ohnofabrications » Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:05 am

Buckwheat wrote:
Buckwheat wrote:Hi all,

From a vipassana perspective, when you say "bare attention", what does "bare" refer to? ie: bare of what?

Ven Thanissaro seems to imply that bare represents unconditioned, but I have a feeling this is not the intention of vipassana teachers. ...


Hi all,

I just want to refresh this question as it was a serious inquiry. I have an impression of what bare attention is bare of, but only a loose one based on some writings of Bhante G and Bhikkhu Bodhi's quote earlier in this thread. A more direct answer from a vipassana adherent would be greatly appreciated. Maybe I really need to be asking a ten-day Goenka retreat? Maybe, but that will have to wait. A text answer will have to suffice for now.

Thanks,
Scott

It's interesting, i don't think there is actually any such thing as bare vs. appropriate attention. There is the act of observance which carries with it no intention to change, and then there are thoughts and intentions which may or may not come after the act of observance. Bare attention just means attention. It's bare of attempting to change anything, so in other words it is only paying attention and then not moving on to try control what you are paying attention to.
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby Zom » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:42 pm

I've read it to the end. One more comment:
Appendix part about "No jhana / right samadhi" is very weak compared to the part about Anapanasati, which is cool 8-)
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby Annino » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:51 pm

Dear All,
I started the second reading of the book. I need three times canonical mental apprehension (three readings).
I need to develop “skillful instances of attention and consciousness” to understand this book. This is not easy.
I rely on fully ordained Theravada bhikkhū.
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby danieLion » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:18 am

Zom wrote:Cool book, but again Ven. Thanissaro with his hidden-fire-eternal-mind idea :candle:

Still haven't seen anyone produce a source reference for this "hidden-fire-eternal-mind" accusation. If you repeat a lie often enough, and all that....
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby polarbuddha101 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:32 am

danieLion wrote:
Zom wrote:Cool book, but again Ven. Thanissaro with his hidden-fire-eternal-mind idea :candle:

Still haven't seen anyone produce a source reference for this "hidden-fire-eternal-mind" accusation. If you repeat a lie often enough, and all that....


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... index.html

Mind Like Fire Unbound

I don't really have a position on the book, but this is definitely where the accusation comes from. It's worth the read.
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:54 am

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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby danieLion » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:24 am

polarbuddha101 wrote:
danieLion wrote:
Zom wrote:Cool book, but again Ven. Thanissaro with his hidden-fire-eternal-mind idea :candle:

Still haven't seen anyone produce a source reference for this "hidden-fire-eternal-mind" accusation. If you repeat a lie often enough, and all that....


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... index.html

Mind Like Fire Unbound

I don't really have a position on the book, but this is definitely where the accusation comes from. It's worth the read.

I know MLFU is where most point to. I'd read it long before I heard the accusation, and have returned to it several times since looking for something to tie the accusation to, but to no avail. And in the context of his public body of work, it makes absolutely no sense. He's clearly aligned with the Buddha on all forms of eternalism. As far as I can tell it was a nasty rumor started by Ven. Dhammanando and perpetuated by anti-Thanissaro propagandists here at Dhammawheel.

Repeat a lie often enough and it eventually becomes a truth--and all that....
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:19 pm

Hi Daniel,
danieLion wrote: As far as I can tell it was a nasty rumor started by Ven. Dhammanando and perpetuated by anti-Thanissaro propagandists here at Dhammawheel.

Repeat a lie often enough and it eventually becomes a truth--and all that....

Since Ven Thanissaro is quite clear that he disgrees with other interpretations in a number of areas, it is no surprise that a number of other interpreters disagree with him. It's a stretch to call that a conspiracy.

Ven Thanissaro makes some interesting points regarding how to make use the the "not-self" teachings. Some possible objections to his interpretation have been discussed in the threads I linked to above. Robert and others have given some thought to the matter recently in the thread:
NO self
http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=14502

Since this issue of not-self is central to the Buddha Dhamma, and grasping it wrongly could be problematical, it seems worthwhile to examine it carefully:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .ntbb.html
12. "Though certain recluses and brahmans claim to propound the full understanding of all kinds of clinging... they describe the full understanding of clinging to sensual pleasures, clinging to views, and clinging to rules and observances without describing the full understanding of clinging to a doctrine of self. They do not understand one instance... therefore they describe only the full understanding of clinging to sensual pleasures, clinging to views, and clinging to rules and observances without describing the full understanding of clinging to a doctrine of self.


:anjali:
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:24 pm

danieLion wrote: As far as I can tell it was a nasty rumor started by Ven. Dhammanando and perpetuated by anti-Thanissaro propagandists here at Dhammawheel.

Repeat a lie often enough and it eventually becomes a truth--and all that....
I don't give a rat's patootie about Ven Thanisarro one way or another, but to call individuals who have carefully thought out disagreements with Ven T "propagandists" does not really do your argument any favors.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby danieLion » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:10 am

mikenz66 wrote:Hi Daniel,
danieLion wrote: As far as I can tell it was a nasty rumor started by Ven. Dhammanando and perpetuated by anti-Thanissaro propagandists here at Dhammawheel.

Repeat a lie often enough and it eventually becomes a truth--and all that....

Since Ven Thanissaro is quite clear that he disgrees with other interpretations in a number of areas, it is no surprise that a number of other interpreters disagree with him. It's a stretch to call that a conspiracy.

Ven Thanissaro makes some interesting points regarding how to make use the the "not-self" teachings. Some possible objections to his interpretation have been discussed in the threads I linked to above. Robert and others have given some thought to the matter recently in the thread:
NO self
http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=14502

Since this issue of not-self is central to the Buddha Dhamma, and grasping it wrongly could be problematical, it seems worthwhile to examine it carefully:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .ntbb.html

12. "Though certain recluses and brahmans claim to propound the full understanding of all kinds of clinging... they describe the full understanding of clinging to sensual pleasures, clinging to views, and clinging to rules and observances without describing the full understanding of clinging to a doctrine of self. They do not understand one instance... therefore they describe only the full understanding of clinging to sensual pleasures, clinging to views, and clinging to rules and observances without describing the full understanding of clinging to a doctrine of self.
:anjali:
Mike

Whether it's a conspiracy or not is irrelevant (IMO it's too out in the open to be such). What Thanissaro teaches about anatta is irrelevant (I don't study Thanissaro much anymore and this latest book is just a compilation of scattered teachings I've already digested or got indigestion from.). Whether or not Thanissaro actually told Dhammanando he believes in an eternal self is irrelevant. Whether the Buddha meant NO self or NOT self by anatta is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the Buddha never came out and plainly said the self does not exist, and the one time (we know of) someone asked him if the self exists he refused to answer. What is relevant is that the texts are full of locutions (personal pronouns, etc...) where the existence of the self is taken for granted.

It makes very little difference if one believes and acts as if one has no self or if one acts and believes that the aggregates are not self because in the context of the whole Buddha Dhamma either view has path utility.
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby danieLion » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:13 am

tiltbillings wrote:
danieLion wrote: As far as I can tell it was a nasty rumor started by Ven. Dhammanando and perpetuated by anti-Thanissaro propagandists here at Dhammawheel.

Repeat a lie often enough and it eventually becomes a truth--and all that....
I don't give a rat's patootie about Ven Thanisarro one way or another, but to call individuals who have carefully thought out disagreements with Ven T "propagandists" does not really do your argument any favors.

You're right. However, I wasn't referring to the careful ones and apologize if what I said implied I lump them together with the reckless ones.
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:16 am

danieLion wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
danieLion wrote: As far as I can tell it was a nasty rumor started by Ven. Dhammanando and perpetuated by anti-Thanissaro propagandists here at Dhammawheel.

Repeat a lie often enough and it eventually becomes a truth--and all that....
I don't give a rat's patootie about Ven Thanisarro one way or another, but to call individuals who have carefully thought out disagreements with Ven T "propagandists" does not really do your argument any favors.

You're right. However, I wasn't referring to the careful ones and apologize if what I said implied I lump them together with the reckless ones.
Sometimes all this squabbling is a pain in the tookus and I can appreciate your impatience with it.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby danieLion » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:22 am

tiltbillings wrote:I don't give a rat's patootie about Ven Thanisarro one way or another, but to call individuals who have carefully thought out disagreements with Ven T "propagandists" does not really do your argument any favors.

danieLion wrote:You're right. However, I wasn't referring to the careful ones and apologize if what I said implied I lump them together with the reckless ones.

tiltbillings wrote:Sometimes all this squabbling is a pain in the tookus and I can appreciate your impatience with it.

I'll always like you Tilt, no matter how impatient or squabbley either of us get, even towards each other.:heart:
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