Sorry, the pejorative term 'animalistic' was mine alone. Ok, I admit it was a bit overdone.tiltbillings wrote:?manas wrote: ordinary, animalistic ejaculatory sex
Makes me glad I am not a Toaist if that is their point of view.
kind regards.
Sorry, the pejorative term 'animalistic' was mine alone. Ok, I admit it was a bit overdone.tiltbillings wrote:?manas wrote: ordinary, animalistic ejaculatory sex
Makes me glad I am not a Toaist if that is their point of view.
We are, after all, animals.manas wrote:Sorry, the pejorative term 'animalistic' was mine alone. Ok, I admit it was a bit overdone.tiltbillings wrote:?manas wrote: ordinary, animalistic ejaculatory sex
Makes me glad I am not a Toaist if that is their point of view.
kind regards.
I understood that. I am not advocating that everyone leave the lay life en masse and ordain.manas wrote:Hi Ben,
I did say at the outset that this topic was for laymen who are not (as yet) willing or able to renounce sex pleasure.
Well, yes. There will be intensely pleasurable sensations regardless of one's status as a lay person or monastic, ariya or non-ariya. Whether one is celibate or not, one is going to be besieged from time to time with lust and the dhammas associated with it. So how best deal with it? I would instead encourage one to engage in their Buddhist practice.manas wrote:Of course there will be a measure of 'grasping' as one experiences pleasure rise upward, rather than spurting it out wastefully into the abyss. But that grasping is going to be there in any case. It doesn't disappear until anagami, right? So until then, if one is a layman, and is not yet going to be celibate, then this is a useful *adjunct* to one's Buddhist practice.
Sorry, Manas, says who?...but it is on a much higher level than ordinary, animalistic ejaculatory sex.
I challenge this statement and I suggest you do the same. How do you know that its a step in the right direction??It is a step in the right direction, towards greater self-control and awareness.
You need to truly engage with the practice Manas to discover that it lacks nothing, it requires no 'adjunct'.I never said it could replace the Dhamma though, did I?
Yes, basically. Really intelligent two-legged ones with opposable thumbs, who have an uncanny ability to construct increasingly sophisticated tools. But, yes we are the species homo sapiens although whether (taken as a whole) we deserve the 'sapiens' appellation is in question.tiltbillings wrote:...
We are, after all, animals.
I am trying to engage with the practice, Ben, and one thing I've discovered lately is that there can be, in some practitioners, a kind of inner war with themselves due to trying to artificially be like the Buddha or his advanced disciples who were totally without sex desire, when one is not as yet there. This false idealism can do phychological harm. Do you see what I mean, Ben?Ben wrote: You need to truly engage with the practice Manas to discover that it lacks nothing, it requires no 'adjunct'.
kind regards,
Ben
It is not a matter or ordaning. There are people, even coples who lead a householder life without taking part on such pleasure. And I would wonder if their understanding about care for each other wouldn't be more clean as in ordinary relations.Ben wrote:I understood that. I am not advocating that everyone leave the lay life en masse and ordain.manas wrote:Hi Ben,
I did say at the outset that this topic was for laymen who are not (as yet) willing or able to renounce sex pleasure.
I would not express it that way. It is just that sex pleasure is becoming unattractive if one follows the teachings of the Buddha in a certain way. If one finds it unattractive and expresses this with speech those clinging to sex pleasure may perceive this to be aversion or morally judgemental. But that misperception is only the consequence of language perception being merged with feelings.manas wrote:I have noticed in myself and other Buddhists, a kind of underlying assumption that sex pleasure is inherently 'bad' or 'unwholesome'.
Ben has already commented on the Wifi aversion. As for energy, it is not some mystical substance that can be moved around. It's a measure of a system's capacity to do work, where work done is calculated as the product of a force and the distance over which that force acts. All this talk of 'vital forces' just seems to me to reflect a view in a spirit/soul vs body dichotomy... almost like a Cartesian duality. My understanding is that the Buddha taught a system without this spiritual magical woo woo; the aggregates. No separate 'energy' or 'life force' that could be mistaken for atta, just the aggregates where no atta is found. When the Buddha talked of 'directing energy', I read 'applying a force in the direction of the force', or voluntarily effecting a change in my current momentum in a wholesome direction. Nothing to do with woo woo.manas wrote:being immersed in wi-fi EMF fields is making me feel a bit dizzy right now) ... drawing the energy inwards & upwards ... recirculate energy ... It's just about energy. ... save the vital forces and recirculate them so that this energy can be put to good use
No, not really. I don't think its an appropriate analogy.It is an adjunct in the same way that seeing a doctor is if you need medicine. If I'm sick I see a doctor (well, in my case a herbalist) and not a monk! But for Dhamma instruction, I see a monk. Does that clarify it better?
And this touches on something that I have been thinking about quite a bit lately. Thank you for raising it. However, in many instances I believe that it is a manifestation of an unhealthy attitude characterised by aversion.manas wrote:I am trying to engage with the practice, Ben, and one thing I've discovered lately is that there can be, in some practitioners, a kind of inner war with themselves due to trying to artificially be like the Buddha or his advanced disciples who were totally without sex desire, when one is not as yet there. This false idealism can do phychological harm. Do you see what I mean, Ben?
For those who don't get the reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EweM_ILVt4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Ben wrote: Practice that includes sila, the development of samadhi and panna eradicates all mental defilements. In the words of Rachael Hunter, 'It doesn't happen overnight but it does happen'.
When it comes from a aspiration to imitate something (the desire to become) yes , when it comes form right view (understanding) surly not. Practice needs to struggle with one/the self.a manifestation of an unhealthy attitude characterised by aversion
I am merely reporting what I have witnessed. I have seen quite a few people respond to their craving for sensuality with an aversive response.Hanzze wrote:When it comes from a aspiration to imitate something (the desire to become) yes , when it comes form right view (understanding) surly not.a manifestation of an unhealthy attitude characterised by aversion
Dear Ben,Ben wrote:Hi Hanzze,I am merely reporting what I have witnessed. I have seen quite a few people respond to their craving for sensuality with an aversive response.Hanzze wrote:When it comes from a aspiration to imitate something (the desire to become) yes , when it comes form right view (understanding) surly not.a manifestation of an unhealthy attitude characterised by aversion
kind regards,
Ben