Monasteries and Sleep

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Monasteries and Sleep

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Cittasanto wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:The only Vinaya requirement for a bhikkhu that I'm aware of is that he's up before sunrise.

Metta,
Retro. :)
I am not familiar with that one, do you know where it is?
I think he must have dreamed about that one :)

Maybe thinking of the rule not to lie down under the same roof as a novice for more than three consecutive nights, but there's no offence if one gets up before dawn.
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daverupa
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Re: Monasteries and Sleep

Post by daverupa »

The sunrise reference is probably half-remembered from the Buddha declaring that, of those signs of a declining Sangha, one is the rising sun shining on a sleeping bhikkhu. It's in a Sutta, somewhere...

* Ah! Here we are:
Samyutta Nikaya, Opammasamyutta (19), Sutta 8

…Monks, at present the monks live diligent and zealous to dispel as though have taken a block of wood for the pillow. And Màra the Evil One does not obtain a cause and reason to intervene.

6. Monks, in the future there will be a time when the softness of the beautiful hands and feet of the monks would dry up and they would sleep until sun rise with their huge bodies. Then Màra the Evil One will obtain a cause and chance to intervene.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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DNS
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Re: Monasteries and Sleep

Post by DNS »

Samyutta Nikaya, Opammasamyutta (19), Sutta 8

6. Monks, in the future there will be a time when the softness of the beautiful hands and feet of the monks would dry up and they would sleep until sun rise with their huge bodies. Then Màra the Evil One will obtain a cause and chance to intervene.
Cool, the Buddha even foresaw the current obesity epidemic.

Also, alms food is obtained from dawn to 12 noon, so it would seem to imply that one should be up by that time.
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DAWN
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Re: Monasteries and Sleep

Post by DAWN »

Tonight i went sleep with a great intention to meditate well and deepely before, so i stand up at 1:10AM. 3:30 hours of sleeping, and i feel the mind clear and calm, established in the present moment, full of energy, without any lazy or weakness.

So it's works. :namaste:
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Monasteries and Sleep

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Here, almsfood is sometimes not obtained until 11:00 am, so getting up before dawn can mean that one has to wait six or seven hours before getting anything to eat. Wherever possible, I go for alms to local houses by about 7:00 am.

In Burma, the morning meal is taken at 5:15, with another meal at about 11:00 am.

In the Thai Forest tradition, and in Thailand generally, the monks go for alms about 5:30 to 6:00 am, and eat soon after returning from almsround — at least that's how it was for me nearly thirty years ago.

In the UK, the time of sunrise varies greatly through the year, now it is at 6:12 am, but may be 8:00 am in the winter or 4:30 am in mid-summer.
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Uilium
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Re: Monasteries and Sleep

Post by Uilium »

Christopherxx wrote:Hey guys,

So what is up with the lack of sleep in the Theravada context.

I know many individuals leave many western standpoints behind when embracing buddhism - however I think we can all agree that 4-5 hours of sleep a night on a day to day basis is not recommended for health.

I'd love for people that have experienced the forest monasteries either in the chah lineage, mahasi, or Dhammayutika Nikaya, etc to chim in.

And hate to say it but it's okay to think this custom should be changed. We don't have to think every tradition is inspired just the teachings ;).


The less you meditate the more you sleep. Sleep is useless. More time for meditation. Does it affect the body? I don't think so but body shmody :)
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puppha
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Re: Monasteries and Sleep

Post by puppha »

Dear All,

I might throw a spanner in the cogwheels...

A lot of posts go along the way of "monks are contemplative and have very little physical exertion, hence they don't have to sleep as much as we do".

I have to disagree in 2 ways:
1 - I spent some time in a monastery, and there was a lot of work to do. Monks and lay residents spend easily 4-5 hours every day working physically (cooking - lay people only, washing up, housekeeping, gardening, repairs, etc.)
2 - I have a brother-in-law in the French army (Legion Etrangere). They have been told that scientific studies show that the human body does not need more that 3 hours of sleep per period of 24h. In practice, they are never allowed more than 5 hours sleep per day, and their days are filled up with physical training.

A few years ago, I bought for myself a method to reduce your sleep time to 5 hours. It worked for many people, but I was just too lazy to actually implement it for myself.

In short: the sleep time required by the human body is probably over-estimated.

Metta
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Re: Monasteries and Sleep

Post by Bhikkhu_Jayasara »

From my experience at Bhavana Society sleeping is 9:30-4:30, a good 7 hours. Of course it IS a forest monastery and everyone is always doin a lot of work( 4 hours of work daily).

Maybe if i was an advanced meditator if do 3 hours of sleep... But until then im sticking with 7.
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