The use of "Bhante"

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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The use of "Bhante"

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:28 pm

Split from the topic:
The title 'Ajahn' viewtopic.php?f=24&t=13274
MikeNZ66


Ajahn derives from Pāli meaning "teacher" and in the Thai tradition it is also applied to Nuns or lay teachers. Nuns of the Thai Forest Sangha of more than 10 Rains are addressed as Ajahn.

The Burmese words "Saya" or "Sayādaw" (royal teacher) are also derived from the same Pāl word (ca in Burmese is pronounced as sa). Burmese nuns are addressed as "Sayalay" and female meditation teachers are addressed as "Sayama" while male lay teachers are addressed as "Sayagyi."

Bhante is a vocative so should only be used when addressing a monk directly, and without using the name (unless several bhikkhus are present and its not immediately obvious to whom you are speaking). To say "Bhante Bodhidhamma gave a talk at the Buddhist Society" is incorrect. One should say instead, "Bhikkhu Bodhidhamma gave a talk." In the Thai tradition they put the name first, e.g. "Sumedho bhikkhu gave a talk."
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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Re: The title 'Ajahn'

Postby greggorious » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:41 pm

Thanks for your replies. There is a Sri Lankan Vihara centre near me which I've been too, I've also practiced Zen, though I don't know if it's right for me. I've voiced these concerns on this forum before, so no need to talk about it now.
"The original heart/mind shines like pure, clear water with the sweetest taste. But if the heart is pure, is our practice over? No, we must not cling even to this purity. We must go beyond all duality, all concepts, all bad, all good, all pure, all impure. We must go beyond self and nonself, beyond birth and death. When we see with the eye of wisdom, we know that the true Buddha is timeless, unborn, unrelated to any body, any history, any image. Buddha is the ground of all being, the realization of the truth of the unmoving mind.” Ajahn Chah

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Re: The title 'Ajahn'

Postby BKh » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:16 pm

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Re: The title 'Ajahn'

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:25 pm

I believe ayasama is for directly speaking to and bhante is for speaking about a particular bhikkhu as found in the pali texts anyway, although modern practice is obviously as stated above


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: The title 'Ajahn'

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:12 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: The title 'Ajahn'

Postby BKh » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:05 am

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Re: The title 'Ajahn'

Postby danieLion » Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:25 am

I'm trying out Reverend for Bhante, Ajahn, Venerable etc... until justly rebuked/persuaded otherwise.
Kind wishes,
Daniel

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Re: The title 'Ajahn'

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:29 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: The title 'Ajahn'

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:02 am

Last edited by Bhikkhu Pesala on Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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Re: The title 'Ajahn'

Postby danieLion » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:26 am


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Re: The title 'Ajahn'

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:40 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: The title 'Ajahn'

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:45 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: The title 'Ajahn'

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:39 am

I'm just pointing out the obvious here, I know, but 'reverend' and 'venerable' are English words :tongue: and because of that they carry different baggage even if they notionally mean the same thing as the Pali and Thai words.
In many Western contexts, 'Reverend' would be assumed to mean a Christian minister and would therefore need clarification. And 'venerable' primarily means 'old', not 'worthy of respect'. These are not reasons to completely avoid using the English terms, but enough reason to be careful with them.

:namaste:
Ajahn Kim
(Yes, I'm a teacher ... a school teacher. Don't call me 'bhante' or 'reverend' because I'm not entitled to either word, and if you call me 'venerable' I might just say, "Hey! I'm not that old!' :jedi: )

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Re: The title 'Ajahn'

Postby danieLion » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:33 am


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Re: The title 'Ajahn'

Postby BKh » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:00 am

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Re: The use of "Bhante"

Postby gavesako » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:40 am

Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Re: The use of "Bhante"

Postby BKh » Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:23 pm

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Re: The title 'Ajahn'

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:08 pm

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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Re: The title 'Ajahn'

Postby danieLion » Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:10 pm


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Re: The use of "Bhante"

Postby Sylvester » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:22 am



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