FYI:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 73&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Topic title: "Living In The Present Moment" (can it be supported by the suttas?)
metta
Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)
Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)
Hi Daniel,
I don't think that the issue of "being in the present moment" is the same as the issue of "momentariness".
Mike
I don't think that the issue of "being in the present moment" is the same as the issue of "momentariness".
Mike
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Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)
Whenever this topic comes up I think of the following verse in Aṅguttara Nikāya:
Also, an article that may be informative to this topic is The Buddhist Conception of Time and Temporality by David J. Kalupahana
- “nāhaṃ, bhikkhave, aññaṃ ekadhammampi samanupassāmi yaṃ evaṃ lahuparivattaṃ yathayidaṃ cittaṃ. yāvañcidaṃ, bhikkhave, upamāpi na sukarā yāva lahuparivattaṃ cittan”ti.
“Bhikkhus, I do not even know of one other phenomena that is of the nature to quickly change as the mind, so much so, bhikkhus, that to give an example of this quickly changing mind is not easily done.” (AN.1. 41-50)
Also, an article that may be informative to this topic is The Buddhist Conception of Time and Temporality by David J. Kalupahana
“I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854
Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)
A Handful of Leaves
Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)
A Handful of Leaves
Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)
Thanks Ancient Buddhism,
It's strange that that particular sutta is not very easy to find on-line...
In fact, according to Sutta Central it should be here:
http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pit ... ali-e.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
but I don't see it... Hmmm...
Mike
It's strange that that particular sutta is not very easy to find on-line...
In fact, according to Sutta Central it should be here:
http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pit ... ali-e.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
but I don't see it... Hmmm...
Mike
Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)
Hello Mike,
I do believe in a sort of momentariness. When we read every letter, then every split second there is different object of the mind - and thus the mind.
To say that mind by day and by night arises as one thing and ceases as another. is far far from talking about momentariness, as some take it to mean, that trillions of cittas rise and fall every second.mikenz66 wrote: Another sutta suggesting some rapidity and atomicity (one thing at a time).
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;But what's called 'mind,' 'intellect,' or 'consciousness' by day and by night arises as one thing and ceases as another. Just as a monkey, swinging through a forest wilderness, grabs a branch. Letting go of it, it grabs another branch. Letting go of that, it grabs another one. Letting go of that, it grabs another one. In the same way, what's called 'mind,' 'intellect,' or 'consciousness' by day and by night arises as one thing and ceases as another.
Mike
I do believe in a sort of momentariness. When we read every letter, then every split second there is different object of the mind - and thus the mind.
Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)
Yes, but remember this thread is about sutta support.Alex123 wrote: To say that mind by day and by night arises as one thing and ceases as another. is far far from talking about momentariness, as some take it to mean, that trillions of cittas rise and fall every second.
Yes, that's obvious by mundane observation. We don't need a sutta to tell us that...Alex123 wrote: I do believe in a sort of momentariness. When we read every letter, then every split second there is different object of the mind - and thus the mind.
Another aspect of momentariness (in Theravada at least) is that there is only consciousness of one object at at a time. Are there suttas that make that statement clearly.
Mike
Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)
Hi everyone,
There seems to be different ways of counting and numbering these suttas at
the start of AN.
ATI has it as: AN 1.48, PTS: A i 10 - Lahu-parivatta Sutta - Quick to Reverse
Itself.
Link: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"I don't envision a single thing that is as quick to reverse itself as the mind — so much so that there is no feasible simile for how quick to reverse itself it is."
Regards, Vincent.
There seems to be different ways of counting and numbering these suttas at
the start of AN.
ATI has it as: AN 1.48, PTS: A i 10 - Lahu-parivatta Sutta - Quick to Reverse
Itself.
Link: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"I don't envision a single thing that is as quick to reverse itself as the mind — so much so that there is no feasible simile for how quick to reverse itself it is."
Regards, Vincent.
Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)
Thanks Vincent!
Mike
Mike
Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)
Thanks danieLion, Mike, ancientbuddhism, Alex, and vinasp.
Thanks, robertk. Nice to know that.robertk wrote:The idea that it is part of the Commentaries and not an actual sutta seems to have come from the translators innocent use of the word 'commentary' when describing Sariputta's exposition. If , in his preface, the modern translator had instead used the word "exposition' it would have been clearer.SamKR wrote:Thanks everyone for your replies and for the links.
Cooran's link to past discussion and the book (thesis) is very useful.
Thanks robertk for Guhatthaka-suttaniddeso which, as pointed out by tiltbillings in the past thread, is a commentary. But I think it is authoritative as it is a part of Nikaya. I hope there might be similar others that talk about impermanence close to momentariness, suttas preferably.
So just to stress again, IT IS A SUTTA and not part of the Atthakatha (commentaries).
Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)
I don't either. Did you even look at the topic?mikenz66 wrote:Hi Daniel,
I don't think that the issue of "being in the present moment" is the same as the issue of "momentariness".
Mike
metta
Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)
Can I add the following from Upacala Sutta:
Sabbo ādīpito loko, sabbo loko padīpito;
Sabbo pajjalito loko, sabbo loko pakampito.
Which is often quoted by SN Goenka to talk about rapid impermanence of sensations.
He translates the second line as "The entire world is burning, the entire world is vibrating"
Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation is: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .bodh.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Though this Sutta is not exactly about momentariness but it seems to be related because of the word pakampito.
Sabbo ādīpito loko, sabbo loko padīpito;
Sabbo pajjalito loko, sabbo loko pakampito.
Which is often quoted by SN Goenka to talk about rapid impermanence of sensations.
He translates the second line as "The entire world is burning, the entire world is vibrating"
Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation is: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .bodh.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Though this Sutta is not exactly about momentariness but it seems to be related because of the word pakampito.
Last edited by SamKR on Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)
Hi Sam,SamKR wrote:Can I add the following from Upacala Sutta:
Sabbo ādīpito loko, sabbo loko padīpito;
Sabbo pajjalito loko, sabbo loko pakampito.
Which is quoted by SN Goenka frequently to talk about rapid impermanence of sensations.
He translates the second line as "The entire world is burning, the entire world is vibrating"
Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation is: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .bodh.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Though this Sutta is not exactly about momentariness but it seems to be related because of the word pakampito.
I have seen that too, but it was, or something very similar, in the Therigatha.
kind regards,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)
Hello Ben,
Yes, the same stanza seems to appear in two places.
Yes, the same stanza seems to appear in two places.
Re: Sutta supporting khanikavada (momentariness)
Other related words of the Buddha:
"Insofar as it disintegrates, monk, it is called the 'world.' Now what disintegrates? The eye disintegrates. Forms disintegrate. Consciousness at the eye disintegrates. Contact at the eye disintegrates. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too disintegrates.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
This world is burning.
Afflicted by contact,
it calls disease a 'self.'
By whatever means it construes [anything],
it becomes otherwise than that [1].
1. In other words, regardless of whatever one bases one's construal of an experience on, by the time the construal is complete, the base has already changed.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"Insofar as it disintegrates, monk, it is called the 'world.' Now what disintegrates? The eye disintegrates. Forms disintegrate. Consciousness at the eye disintegrates. Contact at the eye disintegrates. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too disintegrates.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
This world is burning.
Afflicted by contact,
it calls disease a 'self.'
By whatever means it construes [anything],
it becomes otherwise than that [1].
1. In other words, regardless of whatever one bases one's construal of an experience on, by the time the construal is complete, the base has already changed.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html