Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Papanca

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mikenz66
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Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Papanca

Postby mikenz66 » Wed May 09, 2012 8:44 am


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rowboat
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Papanca

Postby rowboat » Wed May 09, 2012 8:55 am

Excellent! Great find Mike.

:goodpost:
Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
Ud 5.5

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mikenz66
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Papanca

Postby mikenz66 » Wed May 09, 2012 9:10 am

Thanks. There are a number of interesting daylong talk series there:
http://www.audiodharma.org/series/1/talk/1839/

:anjali:
Mike

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rowboat
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Papanca

Postby rowboat » Wed May 09, 2012 9:16 am

Indeed. I don't know why I've overlooked that resource in the past. It's really very good.
Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
Ud 5.5

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mikenz66
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Papanca

Postby mikenz66 » Wed May 09, 2012 8:47 pm

Some of TB's ideas on papanca are also in his introduction to the Honeyball Sutta, MN 18
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
One of the distinctions he draws in the talks is the difference between using entymology and context to deduce meanings. That seems to be a favourite point for him.

:anjali:
Mike

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rowboat
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Papanca

Postby rowboat » Wed May 09, 2012 11:18 pm

Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
Ud 5.5

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polarbear101
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Papanca

Postby polarbear101 » Thu May 10, 2012 5:59 am

"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Papanca

Postby tiltbillings » Thu May 10, 2012 6:07 am


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rowboat
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Papanca

Postby rowboat » Thu May 10, 2012 6:27 am

Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
Ud 5.5

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mikenz66
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Papanca

Postby mikenz66 » Thu May 10, 2012 6:44 am


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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Papanca

Postby mikenz66 » Wed May 16, 2012 7:43 pm


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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Papanca

Postby mikenz66 » Wed May 16, 2012 7:53 pm


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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Papanca

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:52 pm

He is an article by Thanissaro Bhikkhu on the subject:

Ajahn Thanissaro – Papañca & the path to end conflict

http://www.theravada-dhamma.org/blog/?p=9567

:anjali:
Mike

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zavk
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Papanca

Postby zavk » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:22 am

Thanks for this Mike.

While I cannot claim to have studied the topic carefully or systematically, I've always been very curious about the question of how we ought to relate to papanca. Like many others, I've always accepted it as mental proliferation or a ceaseless movement of thought-conceptuality-language. Yet—and this is partly informed by what rudimentary experience I have of meditation and partly by non-Buddhist philosophical analyses of the workings of thought-conceptuality-language—I've also wondered if a more fundamental problem with papanca is not so much its movement but the tendency to relate to it with a subject-object distinction. Will be looking into the resources with interest.

Thanks!
With metta,
zavk

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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Papanca

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:12 am


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ground
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Papanca

Postby ground » Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:12 am

Too much papanca :sage:

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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Papanca

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:29 am


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gavesako
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Papanca

Postby gavesako » Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:33 am

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Sylvester
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Papanca

Postby Sylvester » Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:06 am

I'm rather inclined to take Ven T's approach, which draws pāpañca back into its central role in the construction of the sense of "self".

However, "objectification" seems restrictive, to the extent that some self-views do not necessarily depend on a subject-object relation. This would be the first of each of the 4 sets of clinging applied to the 5 Aggregates, eg "he assumes form to be self" (rūpaṃ attato samanupassati). I don't think this sort of identification of self = form requires objectification per se.

Plus, there might be a temptation to use the term "objectification" to introduce a Mahayana-ish critique of any attempt to legitimately describe the constituents of reality as either present or absent. I follow SN 22.62 in rejecting any coyness about the validity of statements that make ontic commitments about the things being analysed.

Perhaps "subjectification" (as in the recognition of oneself as a grammatical subject/agent) could stand in for pāpañca.

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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu on Papanca

Postby ground » Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:26 am



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