Satipatthana: The direct path to realization

Where we gather to focus on a single discourse or thematic collection from the Sutta Piṭaka (new selection every two weeks)
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mikenz66
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Re: Satipatthana: The direct path to realization

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Re: Satipatthana: The direct path to realization

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Ah :)
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Re: Satipatthana: The direct path to realization

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3.4 Sati Imagery

The meaning and significance of sati can further be teased out of the discourses through a survey of the various imagery used in similies to describe it:
  1. The simile of the cowheard relaxing and watching over his cows from a distance. Connotes a calm and detached quality to sati.
  2. The simile comparing satipathana to climbing an elevated platform or tower. Also connoting a quality of aloofness or univolved detatchment.
  3. The simile comparing satipathana to the gradual taming of a wild elephant. Connotes a gradual quality to the benefits of sati.
  4. The simile comparing sati to the probe of a surgeon. This connotes a quality of information gathering in preparation for some beneficial future action.
  5. The simile comparing sati to the ploughshare of a farm also connotes a quality of preparation.
  6. The similie of the parts of the elephant, which relates sati to the elephants neck, which is supported the elephants head, which represents wisdom.
  7. The similie comparing sati to the spoke of a chariot. The chariot reresents the bodily activities of an arahant, all supported by the single spoke: sati. This seems to imply that ALL of the activities of an arahant have sati at their root.
  8. The similie of keeping the streams in check, in which sati keep the streams of the world in check so that wisdom can cut them off. This similie has a special role in vipassana.
  9. The similie comparing sati to a careful charioteer. The connotes a special monitoring and steering quality to sati in relation to other mental factors.
  10. The similie comparing mindfuless of the body to carrying a bowl full of oil on one's head. Analayo notes that this illustrates a quality of balancing. I'm a little perplexed by it but in his footnotes he say he will go into more detail on this similie later in the book.
  11. The similie comparing sati to the gatekeeper of a town. This similie occurs twice. In one instance the role of the gatekeeper is to detail the shortest route to the king for the delivery of an important message. In the other his defensive role is to discriminate between the genuine citizens of the town and harmful non-citzens. Both relate sati to having a clear overview of the situation. The second seems particularly relevant to meditation and guarding the sense doors, just like the simile of keeping the streams in check.
  12. Several similies relate Sati to "knowing the proper pasture". I found the most striking to be the simile of the monkey avoiding dangerous areas w/ hunters. Sati is the ability of the monkey to avoid those areas.
  13. The final way Sati is characterized is as a stabilizing function. This is typified by the simile comapring sati to a post to which 6 wild animals (the senses) are chained. The post keeps the animals from getting out of control and on their own.
In summary, the similies convey sati as a detached guardian of the sense doors. It is assigned a distinct role having to do with awareness of, and guidance of what goes in and out the sense doors.

3.5 Characteristics and Functions of Sati

Sati must be differentiated from right effort. Sati never actually intervenes with any thought processes. It serves only the role of a detached and aloof observer. The purpose of sati is to make things conscious, not to elminate them. It's detached quality allows for an objective assessment of the situation, without the interference of the ego. It avoids the extremes of suppression and reaction, and instead mandates that one stand back and look at ones own shortcomings. Oftentimes this in itself is enough to eliminate unwholesome tendencies.

Sati's potential lies in it's ability to illuminate our automatic and habitual responses to certain stimuli. We "de-automize" ourself and are suddenly aware of our own habits, tendencies, and projections. Our mind has a habit of ampifying or distorting information is recieve in some way, and sati restrains it by becoming aware of its own tendency to do so.

This reminds me of the socratic premise that nobody knowingly errs. If people only know and could see clearly the damaging effects of their habits and actions, they would automatically cease them.

"Sati entails an alert but receptive equanimus observation."

3.6 Sati and Concentration

Sati is necessary for jhana to occur. In the third and fourth jhanas it becomes particularly prominent. There are several suttas that testify to the important of satipatthana in Jhana.

Analayo singles out the Dantabhumi Sutta as an example. This sutta described the use contemplation of body, feelings, mind and dhammas with the purpose that one should avoid "having any thoughts". This seems to differ from satipatthana in that diligence and clear knowledge are conspicuously absent. It is thus an "intermediate" step between insight and calm that the sutta is describing here. The object and observational quality of the practice persists.

Another sutta that Analayo singles out is the Culavedalla Sutta. This sutta actually speaks of satipatthana as the "cause" of concentration.

At this point Analayo breaks away from emphasizing the relationship betwene sati and samadhi to emphasize that they are in fact fundamentaly two different modes of practice. He says that concentration corresponds to an enhancement of the selective function of the mind, while sati is an enhancement to the recollective function. Concentration restricts the breadth of attention and sati expands it. In the footnotes Analayo actually references some neuroscience to back up the claim that these two modes of mental functioning correspond to two completely separate cortical control mechanisms in the brain.

The Buddha himself makes the point of their difference in S V 156 when he recommends a remedy for sluggishness in meditation being the switching of modes from satipatthana into samatha. More specifically, the Buddha reccommends switching from an undirected to a directed form of meditation. Thus they two modes are different but as a whole support each other.

The reason that Jhana alone is not sufficient by itself for liberating insight is because by its nature of restrictive focus, it inhibits the passive observational qualities of broad awareness needed to become aware of those qualities of experience that lead to insight. This shouldn't be contrued to say that Jhana is detrimental, however, because the abundance of evidence indicates that in fact the opposite is true.
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Re: Satipatthana: The direct path to realization

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

This might be of assistance if not already mentioned:

The Jhānas and the Lay Disciple According to the Pāli Suttas
Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi
[………………………………………………….]
In Theravada Buddhist circles during the past few decades a debate has repeatedly erupted over the question whether or not jhāna is necessary to attain the "paths and fruits," that is, the four graded stages of enlightenment. The debate has been sparked off by the rise to prominence of the various systems of insight meditation that have become popular both in Asia and the West, especially among lay Buddhists. Those who advocate such systems of meditation contend that the paths and fruits can be attained by developing insight (vipassanā) without a foundation of jhāna. This method is called the vehicle of bare insight (suddha-vipassanā), and those who practise in this mode are known as "dry insighters" (sukkha-vipassaka) because their practice of insight has not been "moistened" by prior attainment of the jhānas. Apparently, this system finds support from the Visuddhimagga and the Pāli Commentaries, though it is not given a very prominent place in the commentarial treatment of the path, which usually follows the canonical model in placing the jhānas before the development of insight.[2]
To help answer the question whether the jhānas are necessary for the attainment of the stages of awakening, we might narrow the question down by asking whether they are needed to reach the first stage of awakening, known as stream-entry (sotāpatti).
[............continues...............................................]
http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha267.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
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Samvega
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Re: Satipatthana: The direct path to realization

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There is a short passage in the chapter where Analayo mentions and seemingly dismisses these issues. I left it out because it wasn't all that informative and because I knew it would likely stir the pot that it seems has already been stirred. Analayo's next chapter is also exclusively on the topic of concentration, so it may be discussed in greater detail there.

From the short paragraph on the topic starting on the bottom of page 64 and culminating at the end of the chapter (for those with the book), here is how I interpret Analayo's position. He is unequivocal that sati and samadhi are two distinct mental qualities. Otherwise, why even differentiate between them? As such, it only makes sense to me that there would be two distinct modes of meditation to best reinforce those qualities respectively, that is insight meditation and concentration meditation.

Furthermore, it's clear in the sutta's that these two mental qualities reinforce each other and both are important aspects of bhavana.

Analayo also theorizes at one point that the origins of the dry insight approach may stem from a mistranslation of one word in the commentaries. This mistranslation ascribed sati with a quality of "plunging into" it's object, which certainly a characteristic of concentration. Analayo does not say that the dry insight approach doesn't work anywhere, but does mention that the beginning stages of practice using this approach can require a considerable amount of effort on the part of the meditator because of the low degree of concentration that has been developed.

It also seems clear (to me) that just by virtue of Analayo's mention in his footnotes (footnote 78) that the standard description of the jhanas include sati and sampajanna (clear knowing), he is not advocating the a type of "tree stump jhana" where one becomes so absorbed that one is completely cut off and might as well just be a tree stump. He makes quite the point to advocate the contrary.

This doesn't mean that the primary characteristic of concentration isn't still a calming and narrowing of focus. To me it does not seem as incompatible with insight meditation as those advocates of dry insight seem to thing. It seems that sati plays the role of finding those qualities that lead to insight, while concentration plays the role of investigating and zooming in on them once they are found. Without concentration it would be impossible for the mind to stay put long enough to investigate them.

We will see what the next chapter has to add to this conversation.
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Re: Satipatthana: The direct path to realization

Post by Brizzy »

Samvega wrote:
.....From the short paragraph on the topic starting on the bottom of page 64 and culminating at the end of the chapter (for those with the book), here is how I interpret Analayo's position. He is unequivocal that sati and samadhi are two distinct mental qualities. Otherwise, why even differentiate between them? As such, it only makes sense to me that there would be two distinct modes of meditation to best reinforce those qualities respectively, that is insight meditation and concentration meditation.
...............
I don't quite follow the logic that because they are two distinct mental qualities, that it must necessitate two distinct modes of meditation.When I run, I am not just exercising my legs. Anyway, I personally wouldn't know how to achieve samadhi without sati. The best way to 'reinforce' sati is with samadhi and the best way to 'reinforce' samadhi is with sati - they are to be developed within one practice.

Metta

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Re: Satipatthana: The direct path to realization

Post by tiltbillings »

Samvega wrote:Analayo also theorizes at one point that the origins of the dry insight approach may stem from a mistranslation of one word in the commentaries. This mistranslation ascribed sati with a quality of "plunging into" it's object, which certainly a characteristic of concentration. Analayo does not say that the dry insight approach doesn't work anywhere, but does mention that the beginning stages of practice using this approach can require a considerable amount of effort on the part of the meditator because of the low degree of concentration that has been developed.
The interesting thing is that the supposed dry insight practice is not really dry at all, particularly in light of it in terms of the vipassana jhanas, which is to say that the practice vipassana practice is more in line with the suttas rather than the commentary notion of jhana practice.


Analayo . . . does mention that the beginning stages of practice using this approach can require a considerable amount of effort on the part of the meditator because of the low degree of concentration that has been developed.Having done both, I would say the "dry" method takes less effort than trying to cultivate jhana alone (even a supposed "sutta" level jhana). With the vipassana style of practice, both concentration and mindfulness are cultivated at the same time, and in terms of ongoing practice, especially in retreat settings the level of of each can quickly become quite profound. Also, when done properly, vipassana practice can prevent one from getting stuck in concentration, jhana, a problem that can bring one's practice to a dead-end.
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Re: Satipatthana: The direct path to realization

Post by mikenz66 »

Off-topic discussion has been moved to this thread:
Objection to the Views of Venerable Analayo

Please keep the discussion on this thread focused on the study of Ven Analayo's book.


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