Sorry...What's the difference? (Reincarnation Vs Rebirth)

[Individual]

I haven't said it "transmigrates." It is definitely swept away, but then, its cessation is as impermanent as its instantiation. Not the same thing as eternalism.

You are making up as you go along.

Doubtful, because I'm pretty consistent in my view of rebirth, though I'm a bit undecided as to what the post-mortem state "feels like," if there even is anything like such a feeling (whether there are bardo realms in some sense, or it's complete unconsciousness until the apparently instantaneous next rebirth).

The consistency: Life is impermanent, death is impermanent. Consciousness is impermanent, unconsciousness is impermanent. Perception of self-consciousness is impermanent, nonperception of self-consciousness is impermanent... And all of this is suffering.

Now, it's difficult to say what post-mortem existence is really like, but the general idea is clear enough, cessation and the re-manifestation in accordance with kamma. No need to be attached to metaphysical explanations or averse to them.

It's peculiar how you would understand... if I took away your body and only had your brain in a jar, you could certainly conceive of scientists creating the technology to give you a new body, in accordance with kamma. And yet you associate self with brain, so you think if brain is gone, everything is annihilated. But just as mind is supported by brain, brain is supported by mind (originating co-dependently). You are an annihilationist, Stuka. In your heart, you refute rebirth.

[stuka]

I haven't said it "transmigrates." It is definitely swept away, but then, its cessation is as impermanent as its instantiation. Not the same thing as eternalism.

You are making up as you go along.

Doubtful, because I'm pretty consistent in my view of rebirth, though I'm a bit undecided as to what the post-mortem state "feels like," if there even is anything like such a feeling (whether there are bardo realms in some sense, or it's complete unconsciousness until the apparently instantaneous next rebirth).

I am sure you will make something up for that as well, by and by.

The consistency: Life is impermanent, death is impermanent. Consciousness is impermanent, unconsciousness is impermanent. Perception of self-consciousness is impermanent, nonperception of self-consciousness is impermanent... And all of this is suffering.

Again, the Buddha didn't teach like this, and you are making it up as you go along.

Now, it's difficult to say what post-mortem existence is really like, but the general idea is clear enough, cessation and the re-manifestation in accordance with kamma. No need to be attached to metaphysical explanations or averse to them.

"Cessation and re-manifestation" of a Self, an Atta. You can't dance around that.

It's peculiar how you would understand... if I took away your body and only had your brain in a jar, you could certainly conceive of scientists creating the technology to give you a new body, in accordance with kamma.

Not really, no.

And yet you associate self with brain,

No, I do not. It is YOU who are associating "self" with brain.

so you think if brain is gone, everything is annihilated.

I do not. A body in which damaged brain (brain death) has ceased to function can be kept alive on machines. So, all else is not necessarily annihilated. However, mental functions have irrevocably ceased. You are making up as you go along.

But just as mind is supported by brain, brain is supported by mind (originating co-dependently).

Again, you have reified "mind" as a "thing", an Atta, and you are arguing Atta-Rupa rather than Nama-Rupa. You are making an Atta out of mental functions to serve your own agenda, namely, portraying me to be the annihilationist I am not.

You are an annihilationist, Stuka. In your heart, you refute rebirth.

You wish very badly to think of me as an annihilationist. Badly enough to spend a great deal of time erecting giant straw men in my honour.

[Ceisiwr]

You are an annihilationist, Stuka. In your heart, you refute rebirth.[/quote]

There is no true rebirth as there is no "I" that will be reborn as all is anatta, there is birth everymoment but there is no "I" that is reborn.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

It looks like we've exhausted this topic from a Theravadin perspective so this thread will now be closed.

Thanks for your participation.

Metta,
Retro.