I am well aware of Goenka's stature.
I am not saying this to condescend Goenka.
However, if you get to listen to his actual chanting, it is nothing like what monks chant.
To me, it was indeed distracting and distressing.
I maintain that an experienced monk should listen to the recording and give us his opinion.
Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting
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Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting
See:hermitwin wrote:I am well aware of Goenka's stature.
I am not saying this to condescend Goenka.
However, if you get to listen to his actual chanting, it is nothing like what monks chant.
To me, it was indeed distracting and distressing.
I maintain that an experienced monk should listen to the recording and give us his opinion.
http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 13#p171037" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting
It's kind of funny that SN Goenka's idiosyncratic chanting has generated a long thread and so much controversy. Maybe he just likes to chant? I mean even great teachers can be cut some slack for such harmless little foibles and quirks, right?
_/|\_
Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting
Well...yes!Dan74 wrote:It's kind of funny that SN Goenka's idiosyncratic chanting has generated a long thread and so much controversy. Maybe he just likes to chant? I mean even great teachers can be cut some slack for such harmless little foibles and quirks, right?
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
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- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- tiltbillings
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Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting
Assuming it is a foible or a quirk, one would think so.Dan74 wrote:It's kind of funny that SN Goenka's idiosyncratic chanting has generated a long thread and so much controversy. Maybe he just likes to chant? I mean even great teachers can be cut some slack for such harmless little foibles and quirks, right?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting
From the book "For the benefit of many", p. 78:
Q: When you are teaching in English, why do you use Pali and Hindi words in your chanting and your discourses?
Goenkaji: Well, these words are so pleasant to me. Pali is the language of the Enlightened Person, and Hindi is my mother tongue. They also create a good vibration for the students to meditate in. In the English discourses I am cautious and try to use them as little as possible, but in the Hindi discourses Pali verses are very helpful. They give inspiration, and Pali becomes easy to understand for many Indian students after taking only a few courses.
However, even in the West old students keep telling me, "When you recite a Pali gatha [verse] we feel good vibrations." A new student may not agree with this; he or she might have aversion and think, "What is this chanting? Why is he disturbing me?" But slowly this person will start to understand the benefits.
Last time the ten discourses in English were recorded the Pali gathas were reduced to a minimum and afterwards there were complaints about this. We cannot please everybody, some will remain discontented. We have to serve as best as we can, and you have to serve as best you can as Dhamma servers.
Last edited by David2 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting
there are several different ways to pronounce pali, and chanding varies from one country to another, and even areas can have different styles.hermitwin wrote:I am well aware of Goenka's stature.
I am not saying this to condescend Goenka.
However, if you get to listen to his actual chanting, it is nothing like what monks chant.
To me, it was indeed distracting and distressing.
I maintain that an experienced monk should listen to the recording and give us his opinion.
have you ever heard a Thai chant, or a sinhalese?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaWvOL8Ztlw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0xtt4gVP7U" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t158mg37mS0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting
hello there
i'm new to this web site its great by the way, but not new to vipassana ive sat 6, 10 day courses served on 3, 10 day course and have done many 1, and 3 days course over the period of about 12 years.
in answear to your question, yes the chanting does stay the same but the more you sit the more you end up BEING HAPPY. About 13 years ago lots of thing used to make me unbalances i.e., the dustmen picking up the bins at 530am in the morning outside my house, but the more i meditated the less i heard the dustmen, just like most other things a balance seems to "mostly" stay with me these days and i do owe it to my karma and finding vipassana again.
The more you sit the lest you'll be bothered and might even end up understanding parts of the chanting in pali.
Some of my english friends who have sat the 40/50 day course in india end up understanding the whole chant in pali.
Hope this helps stick with it man.
be happy
knighter
i'm new to this web site its great by the way, but not new to vipassana ive sat 6, 10 day courses served on 3, 10 day course and have done many 1, and 3 days course over the period of about 12 years.
in answear to your question, yes the chanting does stay the same but the more you sit the more you end up BEING HAPPY. About 13 years ago lots of thing used to make me unbalances i.e., the dustmen picking up the bins at 530am in the morning outside my house, but the more i meditated the less i heard the dustmen, just like most other things a balance seems to "mostly" stay with me these days and i do owe it to my karma and finding vipassana again.
The more you sit the lest you'll be bothered and might even end up understanding parts of the chanting in pali.
Some of my english friends who have sat the 40/50 day course in india end up understanding the whole chant in pali.
Hope this helps stick with it man.
be happy
knighter
- James the Giant
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Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting
I'm pretty sure you didn't mean that, but you know vipassana meditation should make you more aware of the dustmen, not less aware, right?knighter wrote:... but the more i meditated the less i heard the dustmen...
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting
I've been on a 10-day Goenka retreat and chanting was my biggest annoyance. The problem is that they expect you to meditate through the chanting. I'm a musician. Few things make me distracted and lost in content as easily as music does. It's like trying to meditate while having sex - sure, it can be done, but it's clearly not the ideal meditative environment.
When I allowed myself to become distracted by the music and stop body scanning, I found the chanting itself quite enjoyable.
Hoping to attend a retreat with less chanting in the future.
When I allowed myself to become distracted by the music and stop body scanning, I found the chanting itself quite enjoyable.
Hoping to attend a retreat with less chanting in the future.