danieLion wrote: Very likely true. However, since I want to do as the Buddha instructed, I also want to know if the translation I'm going by is accurate. I know very, very, very little Pali.
Alex123 wrote:There are good translators such as Venerable Bhikkhu Bodhi, Nanamoli, and Ven. TB. Many suttas were translated by multiple translators and I suggest that whenever you can, please read the different translations of the same sutta.
danieLion wrote: Take your phrase "fading of all personal craving". Sounds great! It is great. But since the Buddha didn't speak English I don't know if the Buddha actually said and/or taught that.
I had this pali phrase in mind "...taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho...
" from AN9.36 and other suttas.
""As for the qualities of which you may know, 'These qualities lead to dispassion, not to passion; to being unfettered, not to being fettered; to shedding, not to accumulating; to modesty, not to self-aggrandizement; to contentment, not to discontent; to seclusion, not to entanglement; to aroused persistence, not to laziness; to being unburdensome, not to being burdensome': You may categorically hold, 'This is the Dhamma, this is the Vinaya, this is the Teacher's instruction
.'"" http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.
' "Etaṃ santaṃ etaṃ paṇītaṃ yadidaṃ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭinissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbāna" http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Extremely clarifying. Thanks. I started trying to learn Pali with the anapansati sutta steps. Looking at contemplation (anupassi) steps 14-16, I see:
Virāgo corresponds to step 14, where Thanissaro (T) has it as "dispassion/fading"; Nanamoli (N) & Bhikkhu Bodhi (BB) have it as "fading away"; Analayo (A) & Buddhadasa (B) "fading"; Thich Nhat Hanh (TNH), "non-craving"; Nyanaponika Thera (N), "dispassion".
Nirodho corresponds to step 15, where T, A, N, & BB have it as "cessation"; TNH has it as "nirvana"; and B as "quenching".
Paṭinissaggo corresponds to step 16, where B has it as "tossing back (to nature)"; TNH & A have it as, "letting go"; and T, N, BB & TB have it as "relinquishment".
Questions of realism necessarily involve the propositional defining of objects in relations to minds. Practice like anapanasati also deals with objects of mind, but assumes (1) minds themselves are "objects" (dhammas or Gombrich's 'processes not things'), but (2) also assumes the propositional definition of objects irrelevant to yathabhutadassana. Seeing things as they are has nothing to do with the "nature" or "meaning" of objects. That is the pursuit of those who accept the Abhidhamma as Canonical (I'm currently undecided) and subsequent commentaries as authoritative (I currently reject the authority of the commentaries). But this also goes to the OP. This is why Theravada qua
Theravada is definitely Realist (not Idealist). Which or what kind of realism depends on the various commentaries and Abhidhamma interpreters one references. The question can't be settled beyond that.