Is Theravada "Realist"?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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retrofuturist
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Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:13 pm

Greetings SDC,

It does to me - well said.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?

Postby Nicro » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:14 pm


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Alex123
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Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?

Postby Alex123 » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:32 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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SDC
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Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?

Postby SDC » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:59 pm

I think it's irrelevant to declare either way because if it's something we're not experiencing then we're just imagining what it would be like if we we're experiencing it.

Sorryy for the quick response, I'm on a train. :smile:

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Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?

Postby santa100 » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:56 am

At least some level of "realism" will be needed to make sense of conventional phenomena. Else, our houses would cease to exist when we're sleeping or lost consciousness. Viruses and bacterias would never exist before the invention of the microscope. Neither did stars and galaxies before the invention of the telescope, etc...

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Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?

Postby Alex123 » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:01 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?

Postby ground » Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:23 am


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Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?

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Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?

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Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?

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Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:00 am


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Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:04 am


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Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:08 am


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SDC
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Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?

Postby SDC » Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:43 pm

Last edited by SDC on Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?

Postby ground » Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:57 pm


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Alex123
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Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?

Postby Alex123 » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:49 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?

Postby Nori » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:44 am

I don't know what the case is but I think the Buddha has mentioned some ideas of some sort of interdependence of mental/citta phenomena (synonymous with consciousness?) and rupa/form phenomena. I don't understand it. It probably has to be experienced, no intellectualizing will make one understand.

Another idea comes from current science, which is the idea of quantum haze where again, 'physical' phenomena is interdependent upon mental phenomena.

---

SN 12.67
Nalakalapiyo Sutta: Sheaves of Reeds

"Now tell me, friend Sariputta: Is name-&-form self-made or other-made or both self-made & other-made, or — without self-making or other-making — does it arise spontaneously?"

"*It's not the case, Kotthita my friend, that name-&-form is self-made*, that it is other-made, that it is both self-made & other-made, or that — without self-making or other-making — it arises spontaneously. However, *from consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form*."

"Now tell me, friend Sariputta: is consciousness self-made or other-made or both self-made & other-made, or — without self-making or other-making, does it arise spontaneously?"

"It's not the case, Kotthita my friend, that consciousness is self-made, that it is other-made, that it is both self-made & other-made, or that — without self-making or other-making — it arises spontaneously. However, from name-&-form as a requisite condition comes consciousness."

"Just now, friend Sariputta, I understood your statement as, 'It's not the case, Kotthita my friend, that name-&-form is self-made, that it is other-made, that it is both self-made & other-made, or that — without self-making or other-making — it arises spontaneously. However, from consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form' But then I understood your statement as, 'It's not the case, Kotthita my friend, that consciousness is self-made, that it is other-made, that it is both self-made & other-made, or that — without self-making or other-making — it arises spontaneously.' However, from name-&-form as a requisite condition comes consciousness.' Now how is the meaning of these statements to be understood?"

"Very well then, Kotthita my friend, I will give you an analogy; for there are cases where it is through the use of an analogy that intelligent people can understand the meaning of what is being said. It is as if two sheaves of reeds were to stand leaning against one another. In the same way, from name-&-form as a requisite condition comes consciousness, from consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form. From name & form as a requisite condition come the six sense media. From the six sense media as a requisite condition comes..."

---
SN 12.15
Kaccayanagotta Sutta

"By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of existence & non-existence. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'non-existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:45 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Alex123
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Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?

Postby Alex123 » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:54 am

Last edited by Alex123 on Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Alex123
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Re: Is Theravada "Realist"?

Postby Alex123 » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:00 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."


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