Video: Meditation: Suttas vs Commentaries

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Video: Meditation: Suttas vs Commentaries

Post by tiltbillings »

reflection wrote:Yes, but we have to admit it's a very brave thing to say you've been doing it wrong for 20 years. The Ven. already deserves some respect just because of that.
Some, maybe.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Nyana
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Re: Video: Meditation: Suttas vs Commentaries

Post by Nyana »

retrofuturist wrote:Out of interest, what do you make of Venerable Vimalaramsi's understanding of jhana?
I only ever read what he has to say on the subject briefly, but I would agree with Mike's assessment.

All the best,

Geoff
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retrofuturist
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Re: Video: Meditation: Suttas vs Commentaries

Post by retrofuturist »

Thanks Mike & Geoff.

:thumbsup:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
2600htz
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Re: Video: Meditation: Suttas vs Commentaries

Post by 2600htz »

Hello:

I dont know many teachers, but i found this one and his meditation instructions sound coherent.
Thats why i would love to know the opinion of someone who doesnt agree with his technique...
just his technique, not what he talks about history or any other subject.

What to you think specially on this two definitions that he uses, and in your opinion, why this isnt coherent ?:

1)Mindfulness- (Sati) "The act of remembering to recognize and release any distraction that pulls mind’s attention away from the object of meditation ALL THE TIME; remembering to observe the movements of mind’s attention moment-to-moment ALL THE TIME."

2)calming the bodily formation: "relaxing tension of body and breath".

Much Metta.
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mikenz66
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Re: Video: Meditation: Suttas vs Commentaries

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi 2600htz,

Yes, that's a key part of Ven Vimalaramsi's instructions:
http://www.dhammasukha.org/Study/study.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As I though I said earlier in the thread, I think his instructions are good. His discussion of dealing with the hindrances seems very effective (though, as I have said, not particularly different from others). I listened to a number of his talks a few years ago and found them beneficial. Some would use a different definition for sati, but as a practical instruction, what he says seems fine to me. The (Mahasi) instructions I use are also to pay attention to those things all the time (or as much as possible...).

Where different teachers might have slight disagreements is in the "release" instructions, though my teachers do sometimes recommend some active relaxation of something that is particularly troublesome.

:anjali:
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Re: Video: Meditation: Suttas vs Commentaries

Post by mikenz66 »

Related to Ven V's instructions, It happens that I've been listening to this talk today:
At around 27:00 there is a discussion on dealing with things by relaxing the bodily tension. And at 36:50 he mentions smiling as a technique.

:anjali:
Mike
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tiltbillings
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Re: Video: Meditation: Suttas vs Commentaries

Post by tiltbillings »

mikenz66 wrote:Related to Ven V's instructions, It happens that I've been listening to this talk today:
At around 27:00 there is a discussion on dealing with things by relaxing the bodily tension. And at 36:50 he mentions smiling as a technique.

:anjali:
Mike
As i said, this nothing new, nor is it unique to Vimalaramsi'. i first heard this sort of instruction in the 70's from Mahasi Sayadaw trained teacher.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
thelotuseffect
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Re: Video: Meditation: Suttas vs Commentaries

Post by thelotuseffect »

Bhante V's meditation and sutta teachings are quite sound. When I started out my understanding of Buddhism was confusing when I thought it was good. When asked questions I found I could not explain things well and often ran into conundrums. Following Bhante V's method and vocabulary definitions has helped me tremendously in linking suttas to meditation and bringing a new found confidence in my understanding. So as a Buddhist teacher he is really quite good despite his quirky personality.

The commentaries which most people start off with push us in a direction that is farther off than translations of suttas. The suttas are the closest thing we have to confirming that our practice is good and true. There are many different "enlightenments" out there that sure do feel good and liberating but the Buddhist goal is total and complete Awakening which the Buddha alone has laid before us (in the suttas). When you have a good confident understanding of the suttas (by knowing and practicing) and how they inter-relate then you can start reading commentaries as a helpful resource. Otherwise you will be left with a dim candle in a house of mirrors.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Video: Meditation: Suttas vs Commentaries

Post by tiltbillings »

thelotuseffect wrote:The commentaries which most people start off with push us in a direction that is farther off than translations of suttas.
And Vimalaramsi' alone has it right and all those others are just mindlessly pushing the commentaries and have no clue as to what the suttas say? Is that what you are saying?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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retrofuturist
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Re: Video: Meditation: Suttas vs Commentaries

Post by retrofuturist »

... and welcome to the forum.

:hello:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
thelotuseffect
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Re: Video: Meditation: Suttas vs Commentaries

Post by thelotuseffect »

tiltbillings wrote:
thelotuseffect wrote:The commentaries which most people start off with push us in a direction that is farther off than translations of suttas.
And Vimalaramsi' alone has it right and all those others are just mindlessly pushing the commentaries and have no clue as to what the suttas say? Is that what you are saying?

Hahaaha, no. I'm sure there are others. :stirthepot:
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tiltbillings
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Re: Video: Meditation: Suttas vs Commentaries

Post by tiltbillings »

thelotuseffect wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
thelotuseffect wrote:The commentaries which most people start off with push us in a direction that is farther off than translations of suttas.
And Vimalaramsi' alone has it right and all those others are just mindlessly pushing the commentaries and have no clue as to what the suttas say? Is that what you are saying?

Hahaaha, no. I'm sure there are others. :stirthepot:
Have you read through this thread, looked at the links to the other discussions of Vimalaramsi?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
alan
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Re: Video: Meditation: Suttas vs Commentaries

Post by alan »

I get an odd feeling from watching this video. He seems to be pretending.
thelotuseffect
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Re: Video: Meditation: Suttas vs Commentaries

Post by thelotuseffect »

No, but having done a retreat with the Venerable I can say it was a helpful experience for me. I do admit he has a bit of an odd character and says things I do not always agree with but his teachings on the suttas and about meditation are the best I've received so far.
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Re: Video: Meditation: Suttas vs Commentaries

Post by Jhana4 »

Thanks for reviving my thread.

I originally started the thread because I was intrigued by the video and was wondering how the rubber met the road with his teachings. Instead I got a lot of people posting factionalist gripes. I understand why they are offended, but I was curious about the results of that meditation, not the other stuff. You gave what I wanted, some feedback about the method from someone who used it. Thank you.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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