SN 35.127: Bharadvaja Sutta

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mikenz66
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Re: SN 35.127: Bharadvaja Sutta

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Paul,

Welcome to DhammaWheel.

Do you see a relative/ultimate message in this particular Sutta?

:anjali:
Mike
paul
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Re: SN 35.127: Bharadvaja Sutta

Post by paul »

Thanks Mike,
The Buddha's suggestion regarding seeing women like mothers and daughters draws the mind away from the conventional ego-centered reality to the path of expansive ultimate reality. That understanding must be gradually learnt as the Dhammapada says, like refining the dross from silver.
daverupa
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Re: SN 35.127: Bharadvaja Sutta

Post by daverupa »

I fundamentally agree that seeing the attractive gender in a 'bio-relational' way is helpful in this respect.

I would like to use this opportunity to emphasize that the Dhamma is a pro-active process of applying wholesome feeling (the four immeasurables, ultimately) to the Path; when this done, Dhamma practice greatly benefits.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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mikenz66
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Re: SN 35.127: Bharadvaja Sutta

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Paul,
paul wrote: The Buddha's suggestion regarding seeing women like mothers and daughters draws the mind away from the conventional ego-centered reality to the path of expansive ultimate reality. That understanding must be gradually learnt as the Dhammapada says, like refining the dross from silver.
That's certainly a good thing. I was wondering if you were thinking of the switch that often happens in such Suttas, where we go from talking about people, etc, to talking about khandhas or sense bases:
On seeing a form with the eye, do not grasp at any theme or variations by which — if you were to dwell without restraint over the faculty of the eye — evil, unskillful qualities such as greed or distress might assail you.
:anjali:
Mike
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mikenz66
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Re: SN 35.127: Bharadvaja Sutta

Post by mikenz66 »

daverupa wrote:I fundamentally agree that seeing the attractive gender in a 'bio-relational' way is helpful in this respect.

I would like to use this opportunity to emphasize that the Dhamma is a pro-active process of applying wholesome feeling (the four immeasurables, ultimately) to the Path; when this done, Dhamma practice greatly benefits.
Sadhu!

:anjali:
Mike
paul
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Re: SN 35.127: Bharadvaja Sutta

Post by paul »

Thanks mike,
Certainly some of the Buddha's talks (desana) are addressed on the conventional level (vohara desana) and some on the ultimate.
On another tack, since it would be the most significant example of the Buddha's interaction with the feminine principle, can you advise whether the pre-enlightenment action of seeking ratification from the earth goddess is recorded in the Pali Canon or is it of later S.E.Asian origin?
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mikenz66
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Re: SN 35.127: Bharadvaja Sutta

Post by mikenz66 »

paul wrote: On another tack, since it would be the most significant example of the Buddha's interaction with the feminine principle, can you advise whether the pre-enlightenment action of seeking ratification from the earth goddess is recorded in the Pali Canon or is it of later S.E.Asian origin?
The "touching the earth" thing? It's not in the Suttas, but in presumably in the Commentaries somewhere. Perhaps someone with the facts could comment...

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daverupa
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Re: SN 35.127: Bharadvaja Sutta

Post by daverupa »

It's in the Jataka commentary by Buddhaghosa, iirc.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: SN 35.127: Bharadvaja Sutta

Post by paul »

Thanks dave,
You seem to have got the gist of what I am talking about and that has not been achieved through sitting meditation but rather along the lines of applying the factor of investigation (vicaya or vimamsa) to events in daily life: convention is by definition an artificial or customary process: practising renunciation or detachment releases a more expansive understanding- the realm of the immeasurables. For me there is also a metamorphic process in overcoming the hindrances (Vism XII,20).
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