Why would people do that ?

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Why would people do that ?

Postby PeterB » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:50 am

I sometimes think the older I get the less I understand.
Why would someone repeatedly crash a site they are banned from ( two sites in fact ) ?
Why would they adopt a range of nics and re-enter a site just to cause problems for that site ?
I can understand getting banned , and then slipping under the radar and continuing to post while keeping your nose clean.
I am baffled by those who rejoin a forum in order simply to pick fights....While still professing an interest in Dhamma... :thinking:
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Re: Why would people do that ?

Postby Jhana4 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:12 pm

PeterB wrote:I sometimes think the older I get the less I understand.
Why would someone repeatedly crash a site they are banned from ( two sites in fact ) ?
Why would they adopt a range of nics and re-enter a site just to cause problems for that site ?
I can understand getting banned , and then slipping under the radar and continuing to post while keeping your nose clean.
I am baffled by those who rejoin a forum in order simply to pick fights....While still professing an interest in Dhamma... :thinking:



I brought up a similar issue several months ago. A long thread was getting longer between a disgruntled poster, the mods and other board members. Nothing was being resolved, the arguments were getting worse and more pointless.

I think that situation was driven by two things. One was the normal human interaction/offense/ego thing made worse by the internet. The other is a blind spot many good people have in forgetting to apply skillfull means and other parts of the dhamma to internet reactions. In a number ways it is more needed on the internet and at the same time it is less likely to occur to people to apply detachment from views, right speech, skillfull means and restraint on the internet.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Re: Why would people do that ?

Postby Goofaholix » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:23 pm

I think some people think the internet is some kind of alternate reality where the normal standards by which we conduct human interaction and morality don't apply.
"Whenever we feel that we are definitely right, so much so that we refuse to open up to anything or anybody else, right there we are wrong. It becomes wrong view. When suffering arises, where does it arise from? The cause is wrong view, the fruit of that being suffering. If it was right view it wouldn't cause suffering." - Ajahn Chah
"Remember you dont meditate to get anything, but to get rid of things. We do it, not with desire, but with letting go. If you want anything, you wont find it." - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Why would people do that ?

Postby PeterB » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:33 pm

Goofaholix wrote:I think some people think the internet is some kind of alternate reality where the normal standards by which we conduct human interaction and morality don't apply.

Maybe Goofaholix....I assume that the same people would not go uninvited to someones house get asked to leave and then keep sneaking back in wearing a selection of disguises... :shrug:
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Re: Why would people do that ?

Postby beeblebrox » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:17 pm

I think it's ironic because it's easier for me to be good online (not that I'm perfect) than it is for me in real life. I've had some people tell me that I'm the nicest person they've ever met online (on yahoo, not here) and I tell them that they'll probably be disappointed in real life. (Not that I don't still try my best in real life.)

:anjali:
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Re: Why would people do that ?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:41 pm

PeterB wrote:I sometimes think the older I get the less I understand.
Why would someone repeatedly crash a site they are banned from ( two sites in fact ) ?
Why would they adopt a range of nics and re-enter a site just to cause problems for that site ?
I can understand getting banned , and then slipping under the radar and continuing to post while keeping your nose clean.
I am baffled by those who rejoin a forum in order simply to pick fights....While still professing an interest in Dhamma... :thinking:
In the case of element/nick, our worse offender who claims to be sotapanna, it could be very simple: he is a immature jerk who likes jerking around others, not just the forum staff, but also the users of this forum by his lying deceptions, which he has done repeatedly. He was initially banned for repeatedly ignoring Dhamma Wheel's Terms Of Service and for nasty behavior towards other members. both on the forumsd and via PMs. He was issued warnings, given temporary suspensions before a full ban was issued, and from that time onwards he has been repeatedly logging on under various guises, telling various lies to suck in the users of this forum into his deceptions. Why would anybody act in such an immature, stupid manner? His actions likely speak to his character. It is an ongoing thing, which is part of the cost of making this sort of service available to the Dhamma community -- which is: there are always those for their bent reasons who will abuse it.

We have spammers trying to sell their wares, a disgruntled user with an attack blog directed at Dhamma Wheel, and this sort of behaviour by element, as well as other things occasionally erupting. Dhamma Wheel may not be perfect, but we try to make this a welcoming and safe place for discussion and learning, and in the meantime the staff here will run interference with those who are trying to be disruptive.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Why would people do that ?

Postby kirk5a » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:59 pm

tiltbillings wrote: Dhamma Wheel may not be perfect, but we try to make this a welcoming and safe place for discussion and learning, and in the meantime the staff here will run interference with those who are trying to be disruptive.

Well, thank you Tilt, and thank you to the rest of the staff, for taking the time and effort to make Dhamma Wheel what it is - you're performing a great service. :namaste:
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
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Re: Why would people do that ?

Postby PeterB » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:07 pm

Seconded.
I admire the patience of all the mods...and apologise for the times I try that patience.
:anjali:
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Re: Why would people do that ?

Postby Ytrog » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:46 pm

I completely missed the above mentioned events apparently :o

I wonder why someone would want to be trolling on a forum like this or on any forum for that matter. :shrug:
Suffering is asking from life what it can never give you.


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Re: Why would people do that ?

Postby Goofaholix » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:19 pm

PeterB wrote:Maybe Goofaholix....I assume that the same people would not go uninvited to someones house get asked to leave and then keep sneaking back in wearing a selection of disguises... :shrug:


No, and if they did we'd probably call such a person a psycopath.
"Whenever we feel that we are definitely right, so much so that we refuse to open up to anything or anybody else, right there we are wrong. It becomes wrong view. When suffering arises, where does it arise from? The cause is wrong view, the fruit of that being suffering. If it was right view it wouldn't cause suffering." - Ajahn Chah
"Remember you dont meditate to get anything, but to get rid of things. We do it, not with desire, but with letting go. If you want anything, you wont find it." - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Why would people do that ?

Postby Jhana4 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:14 pm

Sneaking back onto a web board after it was made clear that you weren't wanted is not healthy, but it is different from physically entering someone's home uninvited.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Re: Why would people do that ?

Postby daverupa » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:55 am

Perhaps this is (another?) reason actual sotapanna stay quiet about such a thing; there's simply nothing to be gained by such an utterance; wholesome Q&A over Dhamma does not require such a thing.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Why would people do that ?

Postby Ben » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:32 am

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you all for the fantastic contribution you have made to this site. Its through your efforts and discussions that have made Dhamma Wheel what it is - the largest and most active English-language Buddhist discussion forum on the Internet.
Despite the high visibility of spammers, trolls, and various troublemakers they only represent a tiny fraction of activity here.
Thanks again for being here and for making Dhamma Wheel what it is!
kind regards

Ben
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Re: Why would people do that ?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:43 am

Greetings Ben,

Ben wrote:Despite the high visibility of spammers, trolls, and various troublemakers they only represent a tiny fraction of activity here.

I was actually pleased to see that whilst it's high visibility to us as staff, that members aren't being overly impacted by it in their interactions on the site... and in fact some are oblivious to it unless attention is specifically drawn to the issues.

I also wanted to second your thanks to our members for being cool. 8-)

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


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One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Why would people do that ?

Postby chownah » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:41 am

Why would people do that?

Sometimes people think that their message is urgently needed and they see attempts to censor them as just one more obstacle in the path of them delivering this urgent message. Perhaps sometimes these people are correct and they are actually doing their best to deliver a message that we could benefit from reading.....probably this is not usually the case. I know that in the past it has happened that my attempts at creating serious dialogue have been censored...and it is my view that if the dialogue had been allowed then people would have benefitted....
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Re: Why would people do that ?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:35 am

chownah wrote:Why would people do that?

Sometimes people think that their message is urgently needed and they see attempts to censor them as just one more obstacle in the path of them delivering this urgent message. Perhaps sometimes these people are correct and they are actually doing their best to deliver a message that we could benefit from reading.....probably this is not usually the case. I know that in the past it has happened that my attempts at creating serious dialogue have been censored...and it is my view that if the dialogue had been allowed then people would have benefitted....
chownah
The issue here has not been the message. It has been behavior.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Why would people do that ?

Postby zavk » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:22 am

Hi friends

I haven't been here on DW regularly in the past few months. Will try to stop by more often. So I just want to take this opportunity to thank the mods and admins.

And re: the topic. I know of people who behave in similar ways offline, thank goodness though they are mostly friends of friends or acquaintances at best. Nothing else to add except to say...

'Whaa---? Some people are just strange, very strange.' :shrug:
With metta,
zavk
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Re: Why would people do that ?

Postby alan » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:41 am

Maybe these people believe their message is so important that behavior doesn't matter.
A common delusion. Just pick up a newspaper, and look at the politicians. They are usually non-aware, self-important people who have convinced themselves of the righteousness of their cause. The fact that they habitually talk nonsense doesn't bother them.
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Re: Why would people do that ?

Postby octathlon » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:54 am

Q: Why would someone do <undesirable behavior>?
A: To defend and nourish the ego.
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Re: Why would people do that ?

Postby alan » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:11 am

Undesirable behavior takes many forms, not all of which can be easily explained by ego alone.
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