Why such a difference?

[cooran]

Hello Retro,

Gosh! you read it quickly! He mentioned hinayana in talking about the perspectives of mahayna and vajrayana.

Please, Retro, show me where he mentions Hinayana in Part Four : The Abhidharma In Chapters 30 through 41, I will discuss the philosophical and psychological aspects of Buddhism presented in the seven books of the Abhidharma Pitaka of the Pali canon.

with metta
Chris

[retrofuturist]

Greetings Cooran,

Gosh! you read it quickly!

Actually, I'd already read it... cover to cover.

As to your question, I'm confused about the connection to the original post.

My mentioning of Peter's use of the term Hinayana was simply to show that he is looking at the cross-school comparison from a Vajrayana lens, as opposed to an independent one (or a Theravada one, which would be apt in this sub-forum). It is an important distinction when the OP asks, "Can someone explain the major differences that I see between Tibetan (I guess Mahayana generally) and the Theravada schools."

Metta,
Retro.

[Dan74]

If you learn about the schools from scholars, or from Buddhist teachers, or go to the centres and practice there for some time, I bet in all three cases you would get quite different answers to your questions.

As to Daverupa's comments, I would say that whatever leads to liberation is Buddhavacana, whether or not it was actually spoken by the historic Shakyamuni Buddha in the way we conventionally understand this. Also the Dhamma as it travelled to different cultures was naturally adapted and couched in familiar terms in order to reach the audience. There is a theory that Mahayana was originally a movement back to the core of the Buddha's teachings at a period of decline and the scriptures attempt to emphasize that core. Great teachers and arahats have come from all traditions and often those who dismiss one know very little about the others. Best to find out for yourself.

[ground]

... he is looking at the cross-school comparison from a Vajrayana lens, as opposed to an independent one

Can there be an "independent one"? If yes what may be the use of it?

(or a Theravada one, which would be apt in this sub-forum).

This (at least) appears to be a valid point.

Kind regards

[daverupa]

As to Daverupa's comments, I would say that whatever leads to liberation is Buddhavacana, whether or not it was actually spoken by the historic Shakyamuni Buddha in the way we conventionally understand this.

By "conventionally understand this" I shall mean only the Nikayas et al which I am known to accept; with this presumption in place I will assert:

Maha-parinibbana Sutta:
"No such direct personal knowledge, indeed, is mine, Lord, of the Arahants, the Fully Enlightened Ones of the past, the future, and the present; and yet I have come to know the lawfulness of the Dhamma..."

[lyndon taylor]

if the buddha wasnt god, there must be some truth he didnt speak of that perhaps later followers revealed, this obsession with "the buddha didnt say it hence it must be false" seems kind of ridiculous especially when we dont know exactly what the buddha said,

also daverupa your comment about therevada not believing in buddha nature, ive heard this widely quoted but according to the members of the local Therevada Cambodian temple ITS JUST NOT TRUE, same with the idea that therevada dont believe in rebirth, whereas mahayana do

[Dan74]

As to Daverupa's comments, I would say that whatever leads to liberation is Buddhavacana, whether or not it was actually spoken by the historic Shakyamuni Buddha in the way we conventionally understand this.

By "conventionally understand this" I shall mean only the Nikayas et al which I am known to accept; with this presumption in place I will assert:

Maha-parinibbana Sutta:
"No such direct personal knowledge, indeed, is mine, Lord, of the Arahants, the Fully Enlightened Ones of the past, the future, and the present; and yet I have come to know the lawfulness of the Dhamma..."

Yes, I think this is a good attitude to have, rather than making Sariputta's mistake and worse - slandering the good work of other fully enlightened ones.

[cooran]

Hey Lyndon,

Regarding BuddhaNature - here is a discussion in another thread with 104 posts and still counting:

What is Wrong with Buddha Nature
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7716" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why not read that and join in if you feel like it?

wtih metta
Chris

[daverupa]

this obsession with "the buddha didnt say it hence it must be false" seems kind of ridiculous

I do not say only this is true, everything else is false. I say this is enough, nothing else is needed.

[retrofuturist]

[Beautiful Breath]

...thanks for all the replies - as a point of fact I posted the same question on our sister site Dharma Wheel (they told me to buy a book ) just thought it was ironic that I have had a huge response on here.

Anyway, I guess I am specifically concerned about the major differences (as I see them) on the Tibetan emphasis on Emptiness pretty much the only way to 'enlightenment' and the apparent lack of it in the Theravada. For instance the Tibetan schools offer a very seductive stance that only through analysis of the Emptiness of phenomena in meditation and familiarising our minds with this can we realise the Emptiness of self and thus achieve Liberation. I see that this type of approach is not used in the Theravada (I think?).

So how can we 'realise' that 2=2=4 without thinking about it? How can we realise the ultimate nature of phenomena - and our(self) - without practically and analytically identifying our delusion regarding the way things appear as opposed to how they exist?

Cheer,

BB

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

only through analysis of the Emptiness of phenomena in meditation and familiarising our minds with this can we realise the Emptiness of self and thus achieve Liberation.

Well that sounds alright to me.

So how can we 'realise' that 2=2=4 without thinking about it? How can we realise the ultimate nature of phenomena - and our(self) - without practically and analytically identifying our delusion regarding the way things appear as opposed to how they exist?

I think the teachings of dependent origination in conjunction with right mindfulness and right samadhi can assist with this.

If you're prepared to wade through an occasionally chaotic topic, see the following...

DO not depending on avijja and sankhara?
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8064" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,
Retro.

[Dan74]

this obsession with "the buddha didnt say it hence it must be false" seems kind of ridiculous

I do not say only this is true, everything else is false. I say this is enough, nothing else is needed.

I've seen this line before and I am never quite sure what to make of it. Bahiya only needed one pointer, Huineng only needed to hear a line from the Diamond Sutra. We all have different kammic dispositions and what suffices for one does not suffice for another. Pali scriptures have many excellent teachings that have led many to liberation and yet there are probably not many arahats on this forum. Likewise at Dharma Wheel, ZFI, etc. Horses for courses...

[nobody12345]

if the buddha wasnt god, there must be some truth he didnt speak of that perhaps later followers revealed, this obsession with "the buddha didnt say it hence it must be false" seems kind of ridiculous especially when we dont know exactly what the buddha said,

The Buddha was not God.
The Buddha was infinitely superior to Gods from all the dimensions of Samsara combined.
The problem with Gods is, due to their long life span and power, they came to belive they are 'permanent'.
Sorry but they are not permanent.
The same delusion of 'being permanent' limits them (Gods) to penetrate the Noble Truth.
And that makes the Buddha infinitely superior to them.

[nobody12345]

Do you aware what kind of flood you are supposed to cross?
What do you prefer?
The more easy and comfy raft/formula?
Or although uneasy/difficult/challenging YET the most tried and proven raft/formula?
Even in mundane matters, you would choose the latter.
Stick to the most old, tried and proven formula.
Stick to the words and direct teachings of the one and only fully Awakened One.